Alexander is getting off multiple drugs with the Paddison Program

We discuss how:

– Following the Paddison Program, Alexander has been able to completely get off prednisolone and Plaquenil, and greatly reduce methotrexate
– Alexander was 23 when he got the first symptoms of RA
– During a trip to Europe he was always tired and had pain in his hands and feet
– After the trip he started doing research on his own and identified the symptoms of RA
– Following tests confirmed it, and the doctor suggested starting with methotrexate
– After some weeks on methotrexate and prednisolone, a deep depressive state began as a side effect
– After further research he found the Paddison Program, and decided to incorporate it with medication management
– Hearing the testimonials from so many people about the Program moved him to proceed that way

Clint: Today I’ve got a guest who’s just up the road from me in Sydney. His name is Alexander, we’ve connected online, talked about some of the very brief highlights of his improvement with rheumatoid arthritis. So I’ve invited him on to this episode so we can hear about it in much more detail. Good day, welcome Alexander.

Alexander: Hey Clint, super excited to be here. It’s been a while on your program so I just really wanted to come down and talk about how I’ve been able to make tremendous progress, and how basically been able to get off all of the drugs I was on before.

Clint: Fantastic. Well, why don’t you give us just some of those highlights so that we can get excited about what we’re about to hear.

Alexander: Yeah sure. So I used to be on quite a lot of prednisone, and I’ve completely gone off that one. Methotrexate, I used to be on 25 milligrams a week dosage, now I’ve basically reduced that out to 10. And on top of that I’ve been able to completely get rid of Plaquenil too. The only drug I’m on now is 10 mg of methotrexate, and small dose of those Arava.

Clint: Okay fantastic. Well you’ve got a good knowledge base there of what it’s like to be on these different drugs. So I’ll be keen to hear about your experience and your personal undertaking of those particular drugs, because people who are on those drugs are always keen to hear what it feels like for other people on those drugs and other than this platform that we have here. The information is sparse and so I’ll enjoy hearing about your experience with those, and congratulations that’s on some big improvements. Particularly the steroid getting off that, I mean that’s massive and the reduction of these other meds is awesome.

Alexander: Thanks, honestly I couldn’t have done it without your program. So, that’s why I’m here really, but I know it can feel like a small world (inaudible) especially when you’re on a bunch of these drugs you know the percentage of people who are also on the same combination is quite low.

Clint: Yeah that’s right. You mentioned the lonely thing, do you know anyone else with rheumatoid arthritis? I mean do you actually, physically know anyone else with the condition personally that you see or talk about?

Alexander: I’ve never met a single person in my entire life.

Clint: I was exactly the same. And so I was 31 when I got diagnosed, and I couldn’t pronounce it properly, spell it, I didn’t know anyone with it, I’d vaguely heard of it but that was it. Like that my level of naivete of the condition was at maximum, like I knew nothing about me. So I think that especially as guys as well you mentioned to me in a message that we’re well represented with females on this podcast but not so many guys.

Alexander: Honestly I’ve felt like a minority, you know especially watching a lot of your podcast videos. I thought, hey what about the guys? Let’s hear from some more guys you know.

Clint: Yeah now I agree. And I’ve got some theories around why that is. Well first of all more females come on the show because, just more women have the condition it’s not like I’m a discriminating. And so I guess with more females with the condition, you’re going to get more feedback from just a bigger sample size. I think that it’s very unclear as to why more women get the condition, and we’ll get to your story in just a minute. But I think other than we know there’s a hormonal link, there’s absolutely a hormonal link there that we covered in a podcast episode with Dr. Richard Matthews and he goes into very fascinating reasons as to the connection between the hormones and the microbiome. So we know the microbiome influences the immune system, and so (inaudible) got the hormonal influence and connection with the microbiome, so there’s that going on. One study which even Dr. Michael Gregor refers to in his exploration of this topic very briefly, is that there is a connection between urinary tract infections, and bacteria, and that because women can be more susceptible to that (inaudible) introduce more of a higher risk of rheumatoid. And I’ve got my own theories around this, which that through my limited conversations on the topic of monthly cycles I know that some females like to take nonsteroidal any inflammatory drugs to offset the very great amount of discomfort that the monthly cycles create. And if you’re taking nonsteroidal anti inflammatory drugs in relatively high doses once a month from a young age until your mid 40’s and 50’s, I mean that is a lot of damage to the gut, that’s a possibility. And I mean these are a collection of ideas but no one’s sure.

Alexander: All factors that obviously would contribute to some degree to us, I mean you already painted a great picture for me so it’s it’s quite insightful to hear about that.

Clint: Right but it doesn’t unfortunately protect us guys either. And here you are sitting in front of me so mate, you got hit with this thing now you’re obviously a young man. When did this start? How old were you? What what did symptoms look like when it when they began?

Alexander: I got hit hard. I was basically 23 years old, now I’m a Libran. So this was October back in 2017, where out of nowhere my joints just started to really hurt and in my hands. I was working a high stress sales job in marketing in the city here, and every lunchtime I’d go to the gym, and I’d be lifting weights, and doing cables, (inaudible) exercise it’s not like I’d put 300 kilos on my hands. So I was surprised when all of a sudden I’d get these pains. I do lifts, I do deadlift, and I get pain in my hands, and I was like gosh what’s going on move me? It must be some kind of joint problem or something cause you know my grandpa had arthritis and things, so I didn’t think too much of that. I went to the doctor, and I thought gosh I hope I don’t have arthritis in my hands. And the doctor was actually my uncle, he didn’t want to diagnose anything too quickly. He said look, you know let’s look at the facts, how bad is it, let’s wait a little bit you know give a few months if it’s not too bad, and I said yeah I’m about to go to Europe. So let’s see how it goes after my holiday, I’ll come back and we’ll see how it goes.

Alexander: I went to Europe and instead of having an amazing time, I mean I still had an amazing time. I spent a lot of the trip tired, it was weird. I felt like it wasn’t quite me you know, like it was a big change. And you know I really felt it during the hang of this too, it’s strange it’s like suddenly I went from being 18 to being 16 how I felt the next day you know and my friend was so surprised. My friend is a couple of years old, he’s almost 30 now and you know I’m being the young 23 year old, he’s like what’s going on man? I thought you were Serbian you know. Yeah that’s that’s basically what happened, I had that realization. We’d go out walking all day, that those were the first signs you know it clear as day, you can’t ignore them. I went out walking and instead of being able to walk for 6 maybe even 8 hours in a day and feel great, and then go out and drink all night. Basically after an hour of walking my feet would start hurting so much, it’s hard to go out. I remember first week we were Germany I just bought the best sport shoes I could, and that sort of got me through and it still does you know still to this day, if I want to go for a hike meet those sport shoes. I think that’s just the need we have outside of water you know.

Clint: Right.

Alexander: I’m sitting on a leapfrog chair you know that’s it’s a big priority for me.

Clint: Comfort just getting the comfort right.

Alexander: Yes, shoes and chairs is a must.

Clint: Let’s just pause the story for a second, because whenever someone is young like yourself or a juvenile idiopathic arthritis case which would have been your diagnosis if you had just been 6, 7 years younger right? You know 16 year old sort of thing. So I’m curious let’s just do a real quick exploration as to why we think this might have occurred for you. First of all do you know if you were a natural born or cesarean?

Alexander: I was actually natural born. Yeah.

Clint: Do you know if you’re breastfed for the first six months of life?

Alexander: I was indeed.

Clint: You were indeed. Okay alright, they’re some are easier. Now let’s let’s get a little bit more creative. Were you on antibiotics for more than 1 to 2 months at any time in your life?

Alexander: Of course, I suspect it was the antibiotics. I suffered really bad acnes, teenager.

Clint: Bro, that’s my story there.

Alexander: It made me depressed, it gave me self-esteem issues, none of that was really me, it was all the result of the acne. And unfortunately I had no wisdom around me to give me insight to understand that diet combined with things like b5. They’re the answers young people should be given, they’re answers that I should have, in an ideal world be given but it’s okay. Everyone has a different environment and you can’t expect people to give me that wisdom that early. I have a saying we only learn the hard way you know, and I’d learn the hard way that antibiotics are not the way.

Clint: How long were you on them? And was it Doxycycline?

Alexander: Maybe, it was Accutane for a while. At first it was me monomycin, the not so harmful. And my uncle was like look I don’t want to put you on anything that’s going to kill your system. I recommend this one combined with a topical cream because yours is really severe, let’s see how it goes. It took a while, it didn’t really do much. And then I basically pushed him and saying look let’s you know it was me I was pushing and let’s go for something heavier. I know people have been on it, please give it to me and I was on it for about a year.

Clint: Well we don’t need to look any further, that’s the answer right there. My belief is that, that is 100% not even like a question of a doubt as to what’s caused this. 100% no questions, so then that was exactly my story. So I was on the doxycycline for several years, 5 years consecutive. Not one doctor ever said, Are sure you want to keep taking these drugs? And I changed doctors because I moved from the country to the city to go to university, and then whilst at university I changed doctors because I didn’t care which one I saw. I just would go to the group medical center and get whichever doctor was first available, and then tell me.

Alexander: You know what you want right?

Clint: Yeah. And look it’s not the doctors fault, you could argue that someone should have said do you really need to keep taking these? But look, that’s answered my curiosity for you with regards to yourself. And then just to finish my story, I was then digestively troubled for about eight years. And it wasn’t until I went to Iraq to perform in front of the troops in that part of the world. You need to take anti malaria medication, and guess what the anti malaria medication was that I was put on Doxycycline. It was only a few months after returning from Iraq after being on two months again of Doxycycline, that boom it began for me. So, the hard way man, you’re right.

Alexander: At least they weren’t taking Plaquenil mate. That would have been way worse right?

Clint: Right. Well I don’t know if the Plaquenil would had triggered the RA but look it’s a you know.

Alexander: I was just joking.

Clint: I know I know it’s a mess, and the feeling of regret of what we’ve done to ourselves definitely is there. Even though we can put on the right face and you’re very very right that we do learn lessons that way, but couldn’t we just wish we could win back the clock. I mean, gosh.

Alexander: For me it wasn’t just the antibiotics though, and that’s one thing I want to finish off with on this topic. It was also the food, for many years I was influenced by a vegan friend of mine that went to medical school, and his father was a doctor, and he did a lot of research. Look a lot of his influence is still with me to this day for good, but unfortunately when you have good advice it’s easy to misinterpret things unless you actually do the research yourself in great detail. There’s a lot to go wrong and unfortunately I was very much into diet, I was very much into nutrition. I actually had a heart condition when I was younger so that’s what triggered that, but unfortunately it dictated my diet to be much more about my heart than my overall health. And that is why things that other people would eat in moderation, I didn’t eat in moderation. Instead of having one serving of beans every few days or something like that and you were moderating it, I was eating this stuff like crazy. Half my carbohydrate intake for beans and legumes you know, a lot of it was from a can because I was too lazy to just buy the pressure cooker, cook it in the pressure cooker you know. So am I think that the huge amount of lectins and the way I was preparing my food, the quality of food was also huge contributor there.

Clint: Interesting yeah. With your acne, were you consuming any dairy products throughout your teenage years?

Alexander: Oh without a doubt yeah.

Clint: For me that was a big thing.

Alexander: (inaudible) me, it was like the symptoms too mate. I remember when I was 18, I was going in and out of the emergency wards all the time, because I got diagnosed with really bad heart condition it started playing up. And then on top of that I was getting like acid reflux that was so bad that I was actually like, because I was young and I didn’t understand my body. I kept thinking that was like chest pains you know because I just felt that the symptom, and when you just tell doctors the symptom what happens? You know they make their own conclusion, and yeah it didn’t go well mate.

Clint: For the purposes of people watching or listening to this, I think that they will relate to what I’m about to say next. So you’re obviously a very smart individual, and this is what I see so frequently amongst my circle of friends a lot. Some of the smartest people make some of the most ridiculously dumb decisions with diet.

Alexander: It’s how you learn right, the hard way.

Clint: So these people can like be senior executives in companies, and have read every book on parenting, and be great about raising their kids, and they know the answer to every trivia question. But they’ll sit down at the restaurant that you attend and to have dinner with and order the worst most disgusting food, and then have some kind of trivial reason as to why they’re ordering that food. And the same human in the next day be in charge in the big companies and stuff, and I find it mind blowing because their intellect does not translate to what they eat know.

Alexander: No, not at all.

Clint: Crazy, okay mate. Let’s resume your story about returning from Europe.

Alexander: Yeah, so back into my story. Yes, I did have struggles there in Europe, and I found a way around them obviously with the shoes. It wasn’t a long term fix I knew but that was in the end, the end was just to be able to move around enough to sightsee. So if any viewers watching sport shoes, good quality ones. I got the latest adidas, best investment of my life, still wearing them today. But essentially looking at it once I actually got back from Europe, I actually felt in my heart without a doubt that it was something serious. So, I started doing my own research before I went back to the doctor, so I could actually present him with a better reference. And when I went in there actually a funny story, first thing I told him when I walked in through the door he says you know how’s it been going. I said look I think, without a doubt I have rheumatoid arthritis. And he looked at me and he said. gosh I certainly hope you don’t but let’s do a blood test, and let’s look at a few things, and let’s see what’s going on. So we did the blood test, and it came back we had a positive rating for RA. Now I know a lot of people watching this, and probably you included will think, Okay well that doesn’t mean much right? RA like it doesn’t mean a lot when we look at the blood tests, there’s so many people that have the symptoms without anything showing up. And then there’s so many people that have it show up and also don’t necessarily have rheumatoid arthritis.

Alexander: But given the fact that I had so much pain in my hands first, and then my feet, and I had the tiredness in the morning you know and all that. I think those 3 factors combined, you definitely can’t deny, it’s got to be RA. So, my doctor sort of agreed with me that it’s most likely the case but you can’t make that call. So it’s like look go out there, I’m gonna write you up to see a specialists. And I did, I went down to Royal Prince Alfred Hospital here, which is center in Sydney. I saw a great young rheumatologist, and I didn’t take him long to have feel my joints, and look at me. And now that I look back I kind of felt like a number like I thought it was a bit rush, but I guess that’s you know every rheumatologist I’ve seen since as well you know. (inaudible) money to make you know that’s a system. And yeah he made a good call, you know he basically said look we’re going to put you on Prednisolone, and this is just the short term. I highly recommend we go through MTX, you have a few options but methotrexate is the one that’s proven to give the best results with the least amount of risk especially for young people you know young adults. So look I hesitated and me being the guy I am, you know when I was a teenager I liked to rebels still to this I’ve always encouraged people to question things you know and be a freethinker. My mum was the kind of woman that’s who she inspired me to be. So I said Look let me do my research I’ll get back to you.

Alexander: And after a week of research, looking at stories, I finally found your program. And when I found your program, I realized there was a pattern with most people reducing their medications on your program, until they get to a point where they don’t need it anymore. Now I had it really severely at this point, by the time I got (inaudible) rheumatologist was about 2 months since I got back from Europe, and I was in Europe for a month. So it was like 3 months since symptoms occurred, and 3 months was already enough. And I was lucky to see a rheumatologist you know 1 month after getting the referral I get paid money for private (inaudible). Symptoms were horrible, I could barely get out of bed man, I was getting pain it radiated into my shoulders, knees, elbows. I have pictures for how swollen my fingers were. They were actually more swollen than most people I see on the Ra forums. Inaudible.

Clint: Let me just add something. Just like yourself, your story so far overlaps mine very very very similarly. In that first thing I said was, give me some time I want to think about it, was what I said. And also my symptoms were absolutely shocking, like you said trying to get out of bed was a massive problem. And at the time I also had a torn anterior cruciate ligament in my left knee, so I was on crutches. I think if I either just went to see the rheumatologist, I was still on crutches or just come off, so I was in a terrible way . But let me just add something here that you might not know, my rheumatologist explained to me that when you are on the young side as a young adult, and when you actually have a very good immune system. Your symptoms come about much more quickly, and your body gets deteriorated much more quickly because your body is actually really good at attacking the enemy, which in this case happens to be yourself. So having a powerful, young adult immune system can cause the kind of rapid development that you and I both witnessed.

Alexander: That makes a lot of sense because I’ll tell you this, I was not the kind man to get sick very often at all. Maybe I’d get sick once every 2 years for 1 to 2 days, I’ll always be the guy who shrugs off some virus in a day or 2.

Clint: So okay. Thanks for let me throw that little stuff in, continue on.

Alexander: That makes a lot of sense when you put it that way.

Clint: And so you’ve gone and you’ve gone back with your tail between your legs and said Okay better get me on these drugs right?

Alexander: Yeah basically I came back, and I was like look you know I found a solution and I sort of found a compromise and I thought okay now I can deal with making such a crazy decision. And when I did come back essentially what the rheumatologist told me was, look you’re not alone. These were the words it stuck, I think everyone sort of remembers something from their first rheumatologists appointment. But yeah the words that really stuck was, you weren’t alone, you don’t have to face it alone. A lot of people live very normal lives of methotrexate, and as long as you spend the rest of your life on this you shouldn’t have any problems.

Alexander: Those were the words, the apparent words of wisdom from a man who has been treating this for years.

Clint: The rest of your life. You know when you’re 23 the rest of your life I mean that’s just that’s vastly mind blowing.

Alexander: Methotrexate is an anti cancer med, I was not a very smart or well versed person in this. But just coming back to a week later I did the research to understand that it is a DNA Terminator. These are not fluffy little things that we just put in our mouths, these are not bright little pills, this can be life and death for a lot of people. To be sat down and told, all you need to you know you don’t have to be alone as long you take this for the rest of your life. It was grim man, but after seeing your program man it fueled the fire. It gave me the passion I needed to start making sacrifices, to put me on the path. And I mean I’m sure you’ve probably heard similar things from people who have found God or the Bible. I’m not sure if you’re religious, but you know I sort of make some connections to religion’s profound benefit to people’s life and the way they left it. Because essentially you know that’s the way I see it, they’re not really things that force you to do things their. Guides to help you live a better lifestyle, and I see your program as the same thing.

Clint: That’s very flattering thank you. So let’s talk about how you incorporated both the program and also medication management, and how you went?

Alexander: So how I incorporated the program actually you probably laugh, but the first time I saw it was actually on support forums then I registered to and also on online testimonials that I found from people. It was strange, I actually found testimonials before I found anything about the program, and me being the curious guy I kept digging around and I finally found like the demo thing that lets you know with them brief summaries. And it really got me curious and it really made me want to know what is this program, it must be great, there must be a lot of info in there, it’s got to be helpful. And so I made that decision that day when I got on the medication I came home, and I said that’s it I’m going to buy this program. Hearing these stories isn’t enough, hearing about people reviewing your program as well so many people were like I started or the Clint program basically gets you to do this and that you know is he talking about thing it’s not the same now. I’m no fool, I know that it’s one thing to experience something, and it’s another to know from other people’s opinion. To hear from other people’s opinion it’s not the same, I mean if that’s enough to get you curious to try it you should try it. You didn’t sit there and just be like, oh these people say it’s basically this, so basically that, how would you know? Go ahead and try it.

Clint: That’s a filter isn’t it? Everyone has their experience, and then they filter it down to what they believe or what they actually recall.

Alexander: It’s point of view right?

Clint: Yeah so okay. Let’s hear what happened next.

Alexander: Well what happened next was amazing. Overall it was amazing right? It’s like our lives. Overall our lives are amazing, but you know in the early stages it can be painful. Kids can burst out into the room and start crying, and this and that, and they can go through all sorts of issues and you know it can be a pain to deal with for parents. But when you have someone helping you, and guiding you, along the way you usually wind up finding your way you know. I think where a lot of us all are strays from we don’t have someone guiding us. Now, for the first time I had someone guiding me when I bought this program, and the first decision I made was to completely cut out sugar, no more sugar in any way or form.

Alexander: The first memory of your program Clint, and how it affected me is a really nice one. It was me walking into Woolworths here, which is like our big shopping chain for all Americans that I know a lot of which follows you know RA programs that are fans of yours. And I was looking at every label, on every single thing I bought now. Luckily I was already in that habit right? Because I previously like I said I was Heap’s into health and heart health. And anyone watching this who is into heart health, and doesn’t want to die of a heart attack would probably know that looking at ingredients and looking at the quality of food is important. So I looked at the back of everything, and I made sure to buy nothing had sugar on it, (inaudible) absolutely nothing. And already after a few weeks, I started feeling a lot better. And I was like, gosh you know like this is great like I’m not following his first 2 week program exact, I didn’t I didn’t do that. I actually thought that I should sort of test the waters. It’s weird it’s it’s like even though I believe you, and you inspired me, and there was that passion and I wanted to believe right? There was also a side of me that was in doubt, a side of me that would wake up and would be angry and would think of your program and think, like yeah well we’ll see about that you know. So I was testing the waters man I was like, in the right state of mind but I wasn’t really ready, i wasn’t really ready for the program.

Clint: Yeah no I can relate to that personally with other things that I’ve done in life. You know sometimes if someone just gives you the blueprint and just says do this, sometimes it’s not as satisfying as making a few more discoveries of your own and then matching those with the presentation that you are meant to follow . So I can relate to that, like if someone just gives me like a gym routine and says that they will do exactly what you need to do. I don’t know in some ways it’s almost unsatisfying if you have a deep curiosity to learn a lot yourself. But look, unsatisfying but wonderful results is just fine for most people. So but I can relate, I can relate. Okay so you started to sort of implement parts of the concepts of it without actually, and you felt better, and you had the methotrexate that you just started taking. So you were also feeling better from that as well I imagine so you’ve got a couple of things in parallel?

Alexander: At this point the methotrexate still hide and kicked in (inaudible) on the early months, and the prednisone was basically getting me along. Now, at this point when I had gotten on the medication from you know the rheumatologists, I actually just had a big job offer. I had a lot happening in my life, so this comes back to my story I hope you know don’t mind going back. I actually came back from Europe, and maybe a lot of people can relate to this too but essentially I got the can, everyone in our company got let go. I didn’t have a job to go back to the day I came back. My boss called me and said “mate. I’m really sorry you have to hear this now, I couldn’t get in touch with you overseas. But you know the big company sensus, if you know who they are, biggest marketing company in America. They essentially let go everyone in our division here in Australia which was a review company. So I went back to looking for work with all these going on. And it was grim you know finding a good marketing company is hard enough to begin with, and you know you can go through a lot of doubts when you’re transitioning. Will they see my value? You know and have those symptoms on top.

Clint: Yeah. Gosh.

Alexander: So you know what I did Clint? I ended up basically using your program, and the drugs I got on as the reason for me to not have to think this way was like my antidote. I was like, no I’m not going to change my state of mind, I’m not going to change my career, I’m gonna keep doing what I can because I have the power to you know, I’m a salesman and the empowering guy right? I need to help people you know and that this shouldn’t stop me from helping people. So I did, I found another job and I actually ended up moving to Melbourne. It was a better job, better pay, better everything. So I went down there and the first few months with prednisone it was almost normal, almost normal, I could do everything. By the end of the day though after a few weeks in the office with the office chairs and everything, I could start to feel it a lot more in my back than I did before you know. And I think this goes back to the same thing that I spoke about earlier with the shoes and walking around. Many of you will realize that your joints don’t react the same way, even when you start to get results like I do now. If I sat on a bad office chair for instance today, I would get bad effect. And back then you know being in the early stages of my journey the office chair they provided just wasn’t right. So I went out there and I found that Permian milli mirror and I basically got that delivered by two big guys into my office. Oh man it was a great feeling it really was it was like supports here you know like guns you have arrived. Basically I felt a lot better in my job and, the excuse of I have joint pains was gone. So I got back to my work and I had no excuse, and you know my productivity went up and I was doing really well. And then after about two weeks, my productivity just went, it was gone it’s like my soul started like something started to die in me it’s a weird sensation. I don’t know if anyone started to feel this way who got on a lot drugs but I was on a lot of prednisolone.

Clint: Tell us how you started to get off it? Because that stuff’s just so nasty for you, and that stuff so negative for your microbiome, and so when your comment a moment ago and said of a part of you felt like it was dying. My brain’s response and I didn’t speak was (inaudible), it’s your gut bacteria. They’re not literally dying but it can shed the place in which they live which is the mucosal lining of your colon mostly in your small intestine. So I want to hear now how you started to get off this stuff?

Alexander: There are no shortcuts cuts Clint, no short cuts at all. It’s only the hard way, there’s no other way we learn. There’s no way we get better, no one who achieved anything great did it the easy way. So I love to hear that, I love to hear that stuff , we need more awareness to that right?

Clint: Yes. Oh absolutely. There’s the slow slow slow slow slow healing path or the slow slow slow slow path.

Alexander: That’s right. It’s like all those people who want to help people become successful. All the good ones now that have survived the test of time and actually helped people. People like Grant Cardone, a lot of the big sort of self development people. They all say the same thing, there’s a pattern I noticed among them and this is someone coming out of sales and marketing, we help people every day. And that is that everyone who wants big things to happen has to do big things. There’s no way around it, there’s no shortcuts.

Alexander: Coming back to answer your question, how I felt on it and what it was doing? It was really bad man, I really just wanted to find a way to reduce, at that point I was already aware of how much harm it was doing to me in other senses although I wasn’t aware of what it was doing to my gut (inaudible) relevant to the Rumo didn’t talk to me about it. I was aware of what it was doing to what it felt like to my soul man, like I would wake up every morning and it’s weird it’s like it wasn’t me you know. Before when I’d wake up (inaudible) that pain, and that was me you know. And with the prednisolone the pain went away but then a few weeks later it’s like hang on, suddenly I’m not me you know it’s weird. And what really really stuck out, what was a big eye opener for me was when I walked into the shower and I had a shower, I’d walk in and I’d have a shower and I’d get these weird like hot and cold pins coming through my legs and just strange sensations. I don’t know if you’ve got similar effects from it.

Clint: I was never on any steroids which was an absolute godsend. And when you said that your rheumatologist put you on to steroid whilst waiting for methotrexate to work, I think that practice should not be allowed. I think that if you’ve been in symptoms for three months, then what’s the big deal waiting 3, 4, 5 weeks for methotrexate to work whilst you make this dietary changes. And basically then you’ll know when the disease modifying drug actually begins to work, and you’ll know how much it’s working, and you’ll develop a relationship with that drug and the different feeling in your body. But when you’re put on a steroid and then tapering down a steroid whilst waiting on a disease modifying drug to work, it all gets confusing, and you feel completely out of control, and I don’t like that practice. I just don’t think it should be used.

Alexander: Clint, I don’t think it should be used ever, because the margin of error just suddenly goes from this which is already huge. Let’s pretend this is like that much less compress right? You know we’re doing the equivalent of being in Microsoft Office Word and just you know scaling down the size of an image. Let’s pretend now it’s that size, it’s still the same margin of error, it’s huge right? Suddenly we’re on prednisone, and boom you know it’s huge. It confuses your body because the crazy amount of side effects you can get from Prednisolone. Not only is it just crazy but so many of them overlap with other drugs. Okay? As soon as I got on the prednisolone and I started, as I said feeling like I was losing my myself, I found the nearest rheumatologist in Melbourne and I booked him asap. Paid the price (inaudible) to see someone this week, I saw someone that week and this was just as methotrexate started kicking in. The methotrexate started kicking and it was definitely giving me alleviation, it was also making me tired, 3 days after taking (inaudible).

Clint: Yeah wow.

Alexander: It was worse though, you probably relate to this was the methotrexate, the stomach problems man oh my God.

Clint: Surprisingly no for me. I was fortunate, I tolerated it pretty well, my liver blew out at one point but we managed to bring it back under control. But other than that the tiredness was my only side effect. But the tiredness for me was immense, absolutely immense.

Alexander: What dose were you on, if you don’t mind me asking?

Clint: I got 25 mg a week, I was for a year.

Alexander: That’s what I was on as well.

Clint: Prior to that I was on, obviously that is where I got to 3 years on the drug. Ramped up to 25 as it continued to not hold my symptoms.

Alexander: You’re a lucky man. Most people who go through 25 mg of methotrexate, feel like they have things in their stomach, killing their stomach. Like the day before the day they take it. The day after, even the day after that, I’m on a massive support forum on Facebook and so many people talk about how bad their stomach gets. How hard it is to eat around that methotrexate (inaudible) and a lot of people tell them like get on the injection right? get on the injection.

Clint: Yeah yeah it’s common and in fact that’s what frequently the rheumatologists say too, and I personally can’t see too much of an issue with that. I don’t ever feel a sense of oh no when someone tells me they’re moving from tablet to injection, the studies suggests that the active part of the drug gets absorbed or uptake more effective and so often a 25 mg tablet dose can be handled or can actually have a better effect when it switched to injection.

Clint: I don’t see a problem with it if people are not to act out about the injection. But I never even had that discussion with my my doc because it was just the tiredness for me. Yeah so continue your story with your new rheumatologist in Melbourne.

Alexander: Yes the new rheumatologists in Melbourne was an absolute joke. I just paid the money to see them and basically you know just get something else out.

Alexander: I wanted to get rid of prednisolone and I didn’t have the courage to face it was just the methotrexate. I especially remember at that point reading about many people on support forums telling me that methotrexate wore off the effects wore off. There seemed to be a key that anyone who needed high doses of methotrexate it was very rare that I came across anyone that could do it with just the methotrexate, they’d always get combination drugs.

Alexander: Now why I had the belief that I couldn’t do it with just the methotrexate wasn’t because I had it in me to do it with just the methotrexate or even with nothing but because my rheumatologist that first guy I saw told me after feeling me and checking all my joints so we got back a little bit he here, he told me “You have a severe case of rheumatoid arthritis and what we’re going to need to do is do a combination of drugs and so we’ll need to start with the prednisone and MTX and then get you off the prednisone and then we can look at getting one the drugs.” So as soon as I saw about prednisone was I thought okay I can’t go back to Sydney to see that guy or see anyone.

Alexander: And I remember what that guy said so I’ll just tell them the same thing and I did, I told the woman the same thing I said no. He said that I need a combination of drugs and I hate prednisolone. It’s an evil thing. A lot of people tell me, I see that now I see the way it changes me. I’d rather die than feel like this every day because life isn’t worth living. You feel like you don’t have a soul and something’s missing you know. And she was like look she said the same thing the guy said it’s like the rheumatologist regurgitate a sand cliché lines she’s like “you don’t have to be alone. We can find another drug that will work for you.”

Alexander: It was like Look I know you know a lot of people are probably thinking Oh but that’s you know it’s it’s true in a sense like for people that don’t have hope, there can be hope and I don’t deny that. You know I’m sure it could be hope. But God when I got on Plaquenil to get off prednisolone. That was a hell of a drug that was just another bad story man. Now I was tolerating methotrexate really well. I also kind of guy who was healthy for years and had a strong body so my liver had nonissues. But when I got on the Plaquenil man and I got off that prednisolone although my soul felt like it was back. God. Man I just felt like my body was this strange thing. I felt like I turned into a different creature entirely The range of side effects was just insane.

Clint: I laugh because I can relate and I hear this a lot not because I’m not empathetic sympathetic or any of the above and this is all and the way the way you tell it to the way you tell it so.

Clint: I’ve got some video footage that I’m going to compile and put online one day. If it doesn’t form part of a documentary or something. But there’s one video..

Alexander: I hope you do and you should probably do it.

Clint: This is one video that I got when I’m walking around I’m holding up every single supplement that I took and it’s hilarious, there’s a lot of crap that I was on crap that I was on at that exact time and I’m open up stuff and I’m holding up on it explaining to myself kind of the video like what they are and I’m getting to number 15, 16 I’m taken all this junk right, and then I find the methotrexate and I’d forgotten but I used to call it method death rate right. I’m like here’s the methodetharte. And I hold it up and I call it that without missing a beat and I’m watching her back laughing and sometimes I hold stuff up and I’m like I’m taken this and I’m not even sure what that is and I just move on. Right but you remind me of that kind of like I don’t know that’s sort of ad hoc kind of descriptions of these drugs. Yeah. So did you just drop the steroids and go straight on the Plaquenil?

Alexander: I actually haven’t so that I have a meme for Plaquenil that I like to spread around the forums.

Alexander: If you ever remember that Rick James episode on Dave Chappelle with all the cocaine? Yeah, Plaquenil’s a hell drug.

Alexander: That’s all I can say man, that is a hell of a drug. The fact that is like one of the most prescribed combination drugs with methotrexate to me it’s a joke, like to me that now when I look back and I’ve sort of climbed up the mountain then I’ve learned how to without the drugs. I look back now and I am laughing at that and I’m laughing at the people who prescribe me that and I’m thinking wow our world is very confused in the medical system.

Alexander: I’ll tell you a funny story.

Clint: Please, please.

Alexander: I did some surveys in the support forums and these are some of the biggest support forums. Tens of thousands of people I think are currently sitting at like 200 something thousand. And I had a lot of people partake in that survey and basically tell me what it was like on Plaquenil and actually I want to know what do you think was the result of that survey what do you think was the result in terms of people who had side effects like bad effects from Plaquenil and had to stop and people who didn’t and to keep going. What do you think it was?

Clint: Well just to build the sort of anticipation here I’m going to show you what my anecdotal non surveyed feedback has been about Plaquenil from the time in which I’ve been paying close attention to many clients which is probably about five years or so because that’s when I started helping people more personally and not just getting it, just getting emails.

Alexander: So doing the whole support and yeah exactly.

Clint: Yeah exactly. And the general feedback that I get about Plaquenil use is that it either doesn’t do much or that people go on it and they get side effects that they consider very frightening and they come off it. So they are pretty much the two categories that either didn’t do much. Or the side effects were terrifying. And I had to come off it and now that is obviously very very gross generalization from the multitude of different variations that people are going to experience. But that’s just soothed the feeling that I get from people’s you know people letting me know their experience. I’m curious to hear what you found, what did you find?

Alexander: I found that it was split and you might laugh but I want to ask you, what do you think the percentage was? Just amuse me.

Clint: Keep in mind we have to be cautious here. The people who are likely to answer such questions are people who’ve had extreme experiences, okay? So someone’s done really well on Plaquenil they’d be likely to want to actually fill out such a survey. If someone has done very badly there, people are much more likely to talk of a bad experience than a positive one that’s human nature. So they would aggressively want to share their results.

Alexander: Of course.

Clint: So you know I think that those people in there probably are a significant enough people who do well enough on Plaquenil, to make it a drug that remains in the system. If it continually fail every single time then that would be removed from a recommendation list. So clearly some people are benefiting from it and I have had guests on this podcast who on were on it for a while who said it was okay and then they were able to get off it. But it wasn’t, you know you don’t at least I don’t hear of the big changes like you get with a disease modifying drug like methotrexate or a biologic category of drug. So anyway, in response to your question and I know that you don’t ask these questions unless there are a surprising result. So I would expect that you are about to tell me that a vast majority of people rated that absolutely terrible with massive side effects.

Alexander: No, actually it was split right in the middle and this was cause enough for concern, because I thought if this is a good solution or enough of a solution to work for the majority of people. And I have seen people do surveys for things like methotrexate on these forums, even do posts where they say tell me your experiences and I counted them. And I find every time methotrexate is in question, the majority of people will say yes it helped, me included. I only have good things to say about methotrexate even though I hate that thing and if you ask me on a personal level I will say, that it’s an evil drug that will slowly kill you. But if you ask me from a scientific or from a knowledge perspective relevant to feedback right like. Was it effective was it not effective? Did you get serious side effects didn’t you? Would you recommend it? Just very simple yes or no, the majority were in favor of methotrexate. Now with this one, because look I did surveys for a few just to clear this up, it wasn’t just Plaquenil. It was Plaquenil it was split right in the middle, it was 50/50 like legitimately 50/50. I had something like 306 people that were for it, and something like 310 or 311 that were against it. And I was like so surprised, I was like Wow. But at the same time I wasn’t, I was like Okay this makes a lot of sense. I responded so well to MTX I should respond to most drugs and yet Plaquenil messed me up.

Clint: Yeah, that kind of feedback is consistent with my very sort of just loose observations as well, a 50/50 kinda thing. And notice that it’s not the first drug that rheumatologist recommend, notice that methotrexate is the first drug that most rheumatologists recommend. Once you go past methotrexate, I personally feel that your options then become slim pickings real quick.

Alexander: That’s right that’s right.

Clint: So I think that when someone’s on methotrexate and there’s a chance they may have to be taken off it due to some of the side effects. When I’m helping these folks think, no you know. Because it only gets more challenging to find the right drug, unless they shift to one of the biologic drugs and then it becomes more like okay now we could be hitting some success down that path. But I personally don’t want.

Alexander: To what price Clint?

Clint: To what price you mean for the (inaudible)?

Alexander: What’s money of biologic mate? We’re living in an economy that’s being compressed every day, we’re living with extreme inflation rates. Do you think most people would be able to afford> Do you think most regular everyday people would be able to afford biologics in a few years?

Clint: Well I don’t know the answer to that question, plus it depends on which country you live in and how your insurance works whether or not you can help pay for it and so on. And obviously this is a big topic but I think that here in Australia where you and I both live at the moment I’ll be here just for another few months. But with Australia you know if you fail enough drugs, and of course this is again this is the mess of the system right. The system requires the rheumatologist to add the Plaquenil, to add the other drug to (inaudible).

Alexander: That’s right.

Clint: So that then you’ve failed those so that now you’re eligible to be subsidized by the government to be on something like an Enbrel, Humira, whatever.

Alexander: It’s funny you mention that, because the second rheumatologists in Melbourne that’s exactly what she said. She said, unfortunately this process we have to go to, so we’re going to get you on Plaquenil and we have to try it for a while. And unless the serious side effects we’re expected to stay on that before we’re entitled to even just put in an application.

Clint: Yeah, well I mean I’m curious as to if we were to ask candid responses from rheumatologists. If you didn’t have to qualify to go on to a biologic drug, would any of these specialists ever recommend Plaquenil and sulfasalazine an array of all these other you know? Would they or would they just go with methotrexate? Okay it didn’t work let’s go to Enbrel. Personally, I see those drugs as as getting results for most people. But the midrange that the sort of sulfasalazine, arava and Plaquenil world, that’s a muddy world. Especially when it’s added as a second drug. Speaking purely just off feedback that I get.

Alexander: It makes a whole lot of difference when you speak to as many people as I imagine you would every day. So no it’s really insightful to hear it’s from someone who’s been working for so many years just with rheumatoid arthritis.

Clint: I’ve only just had that insight though, what we’re just talking about. Would they even recommend this double, triple therapy when something like Enbrel I don’t know.

Alexander: (inaudible) biologics are apparently saying is the new found you know much more effective solution to conventional medicine which is why you know a lot of governments are sort of hesitant to give some subsidized sort of funding for it.

Clint: Well if no one changes what they’re eating, and exercises like a champion every day, and basically makes it their life mission to minimize inflammation as much as possible. The biologic drugs don’t suffice either. So this is, and there’s nowhere to go from there.

Alexander: Yeah I agree with you there. I’m convinced that there’s nothing that can touch the power of prayer for healing. Exactly.

Clint: So let me, you and I both have a tendency to chat. So let’s try to work towards, let’s see a finish insight for our conversation here. By moving towards what you did with your implementation of the program? How you were able to get off the Plaquenil? Because we’ve just trashed that. And then anything else that you’d like to share about your story to bring us up to date to where we are today.

Alexander: Sure. Okay so the Plaquenil as I said (inaudible) this portion of the journey up a bit because (inaudible) more important things we can talk about. I had the Plaquenil, I had the MTXt at that point it was 25 mg of MTX. It was, I could tell you how much Plaquenil it was 40 mg of Plaquenil. Actually I’ve got I’m thinking I’m sorry. Wrong drug. It was I believe correct me if I’m wrong 400 of Plaquenil.

Clint: I don’t have the reference range. So not to worry. But were you in a mid or high dose?

Alexander: I was on a high dose. And basically not only was I feeling really wrong like I said before it just a lot of strange symptoms, like everything I was identifying wasn’t human it was just foreign to me things I’d never experienced before. Things I know and felt I shouldn’t be experiencing. But on top of that after about 2 months of that slowly my work or the results at work and the efficiency that I worked in was slowly going down my energy levels were a mess on that drug. So I went back to the rheumatologist again you know and I basically asked I was like, why is this happening? Is there anything we can do to stop it? And the answer from the rheumatologist was, hey you know basically you are getting relief right? Like you able to work and do all that and I’m like yeah she’s like well that’s a good thing. You’re getting some strange symptoms, are they severe? Are they life threatening? And like was no. And then she was like Okay well your energy level are bad, I believe this is a result of the disease you know because you have rheumatoid arthritis. Maybe we should go back to prednisone and just give it some more time for the Plaquenil to sort of come in because it’s only been two months and sometimes they take longer. And I was like, oh you know I really don’t want to do that and I went back to it eventually you know. I hesitated she gave me the prescription and said it’s up to you but I eventually did, after a week I went back to the, help me out I’m not good with drug names.

Clint: Not the arava? You haven’t got to that yet?

Alexander: The steroid, prednisolone that’s the one. So with the prednisolone, I got back on it and that was a really, that was the low point. You know how a lot of like addicts talk about hitting rock bottom before they make that decision before they finally got onto the program? That was my rock bottom Clint. I was on 3 really bad drugs, 2 of those really messing me up short term anyway, And everything just turned grim so fast, I actually had to quit my job, I broke up with my girlfriend too. I had a really nice relationship in Melbourne but I just couldn’t be emotionally available man on all that, and I was a mess. I just really needed people to talk to and I was sick of looking at professional help, so I moved back to Sydney and I want to be with my family. I took a step back and I thought you know just remind yourself of who you are, remind you of who you are, that was my mantra. When things get scary go back to the simple, the basics and I did and I talked to family and then after spending time with them and sort of getting off work I clear my mind. I’ve had a lot of time to think you know, as soon as I gave myself time to think, obviously I followed the natural course and I started thinking you know instead of being focused on how I was feeling and all that. I search for knowledge so that I could actually find a solution.

Alexander: And when I search, wherever I search. You might laugh when I say this, all roads led back to the Paddison Program no matter how many success stories I found. The only ones who are able to actually have the life that I wanted, that I dreamt about which was waking up every morning happy, which was feeling yourself knowing who you are, not having to worry about complications with all these symptoms and being able to exercise man. All these amazing stories both on the support forums, and online, and from articles. I came across writers who shared the whole plant based food diet of people not because that’s what they created or that’s the diet that they wanted to do, but because they were influenced by you. And when it all led back to you I realized something, I realized that in not following the program to the exact steps I made a grave mistake early. I wasn’t angry at myself and I don’t think anyone who went through what I did should be. I think if we all go through hardships like that that lead us to rock bottom, I think that’s an amazing thing. And I think you should be proud of all those mistakes you make as a human being, because that’s what leads you to the path of betterment whether it’s through a program in recovery for an addiction, whether it’s through a diet that helps you lose weight that takes the load off your joints and organs. (inaudible) with rheumatoid arthritis going on the Clint Paddison program, it’s the first step in acknowledging that you don’t really have the power to do it with this program, you don’t have the power to do it unless you’re on the path. And I came to that realization I didn’t have the power to do the drugs, I didn’t have the power to live my life like I wanted to. Because we’re all on this planet to live our life like we want to .When we can’t or unhappy, so we’ve all lower our expectations or we find a way to make it work you know. And yet both are viable ways to be happy but, to lower your expectations to the point where you can’t have a relationship, you can’t do a job that you’ve been doing for years, where you can’t even be comfortable sitting on one of the best postupedic chairs money can buy. Is that life? I don’t think that’s life, if that’s life I don’t know what is that life.

Alexander: And that’s what I said when I got back to my family, I remember one day I sat down with someone I said, guys this is what I’m starting today what are your thoughts? And I’m lucky that I have a supportive family Clint, because a lot hem were like, Alex that’s amazing, we really hope it goes well for you. If what you say is true all these stories of people and you know what that sounds like that might work for you, that sounds like it could be the answer you’re looking for. And I said Well all I can do is try, there’s nothing else I can do Clint. It’s like anything in life right? Try I did my friend, I got on that program as soon as possible and me being the analytical minded guy I am the very sort of pragmatic fellow. I followed it to step, everything man and you know what? What’s intended to work for everyone even with a high success rate, it still might not work for everyone. What really helped me on your program was still looking at other people’s advice. I got on your program I didn’t want to pay for the support thing to talk to people but I soon realized that you need to talk to people and talking to people is good. So I jumped on your forums on the RA forums, and I was actually able to get other people share with me their wisdom with certain food groups and things that could have gone (inaudible). And I soon realized that going from the baseline of foods and following your 12 week initial phase, which by the way huge success after moving into the next phase I actually couldn’t tolerate Buckwheat well then. That was like a huge challenge for me in the early steps. And it’s strange because that’s what most people can tolerate. I don’t know you tell me.

Clint: That’s right it wouldn’t be there if that was a common occurrence. And yet this is why I had a great deal of friction talking about this topic with funnily enough because I don’t normally mention is a documentary creator here in Australia. They said look we want to create this thing, we want to put people through this process and it needs to be exactly the same for every single person. And I said Okay well just bear with me here, I just need to explain a few things about this disease to you before I can go and give you the answer that I need to give. I said no 2 human beings with this condition respond exactly the same way. And I said if I was to lay out eat this food, then this food, then this food, and make it exactly rigid, then we aren’t going to have people respond to those foods in the same way that other people do. And as you pointed out, even one of the fundamental foundation foods of the program can be a problem for some people. And if some people do have a problem with Buckwheat, then they can remove the buckwheat. Just test the quinoa for a couple of days and just to isolate and conquer. Right? We find out whether.

Alexander: Isolate and conquer. The elimination diet in my opinion is not only the best way, it’s the only way.

Clint: Which is what you about with Dr. Neal Barnard, I was sat next to him at dinner the other night at a conference in Melbourne and he and I were talking.

Alexander: Oh really? You spoke with him?

Clint: Yes yes. And he’s invited me to speak at his conference in 2019 so I’ll be.

Alexander: That’s amazing, I’m so happy for your Clint.

Clint: I should say 2020 because it’s 2019 now isn’t? I can’t blame the drugs for that brain activity. So yes, but he and I were talking about this and he said that with their program or what they do at their clinic is that they put people on a plant based diet, low fat. And then after a month if they’re not responding very well because rheumatoid such a difficult disease to treat, they can then shift them to an elimination diet he said. And I explain that with what we do I say, we just throw everyone straight onto elimination because most people are just in such need to feel well that you get the experience straight away by doing the elimination process and it helps build compliance or he likes to use the word adherence. He said he talked to me about that were those two words. And so adherence to the program because when you get some initial wins, it can become addictive and exciting and that’s what we want. So yeah that’s what I.

Clint: Yeah. So anyway I spoke to him about that and I agree with you going elimination process immediately is in my view the best way rather than doing something that’s kind of good but not as awesome which would be just going plant based. Which does not address all the food sensitivities that exist.

Alexander: The reason why I say elimination diet is the only way is because and this is something I believe every member of your support forum has come to realize over time. What is on your program is a guide based on the most successful and tolerable foods, and also it’s a sort of working here for anyone thinking that it’s easy to come up with a program like this, it’s it’s really not. And I just want to say that a lot of the things that you’ve put in there I am, it’s funny that even though I’ve been on it for a long time even to this day I keep stumbling on more and more little things that you don’t talk about that are subtle. But they’re like surprises, they’re like little presents when I come across them you know. Like when I research into pineapple or papayas beneficial effects. Then I go back to your reintroduction program summary and I see, wow papaya, pineapple, you know medicinal properties you put it in that category. You don’ need to talk about what properties, you just assume we’re going to trust you and I did, but it’s really nice to see that entrusting you with that I basically took on and I purchase donate all the foods that were ideal based on all the research that’s out there you know.

Alexander: And look I’m 24, I don’t have the time to spend 10, 15 years researching like you did, I didn’t have that time. So the fact that you offered me that for like 50 bucks, the entire program all this stuff. You even give updated versions of it, I was like that’s a skill. That’s even if it works a little bit, that’s a skill. So to have that work so well, that turned me into a believer. Because when something does work exactly the way it does, it’s telling the truth. And if the truth is that this is changing so many lives which I first hand realized, having it changed mine like it has. You can’t deny that that’s what it is.

Alexander: It’s like all those people who come out of Alcoholics Anonymous programs and they talk about how it changed their life. What you think you can walk up to someone and just tell them that AA doesn’t work? You have millions of people in this world that are going to say no man you’ve got to follow the steps, that’s what it comes down to. So I’m just going to say this for all you viewers watching, you have to follow the steps guys to the exact. If it’s not working, go back to step 1, do properly man. And if there’s anything that’s causing issues, Clint is a huge supporter of thinking for yourself, because that’s how he got to where he is. (inaudible) great man or woman in the world gets to where they are but think for themselves.

Alexander: Look at me, Buckwheat didn’t work for me that’s a really odd occurrence, but with you, with your support, and everything that you offered me which was a beautiful support forum. I had other people that went through the Clint Paddison Program, and they told me very quickly that I should come back to Buckwheat and just reintroduce it at a later stage. Right now I’m eating 150 grams of buckwheat a day with my quinoa porridges. And even though I’ve built myself up to a point where I can oats every morning, I’ve grown to love quinoa and Buckwheat so much that I want to actually like put out some great recipes online. And anyone from the forums, the Clint Paddison forums I’ll be uploading that stuff.

Clint: That’s awesome.

Alexander: Yeah. It’s just amazing what these pseudo grains can be done with in terms of cooking. But look enough on that, I’m sure we have a lot of other things to talk about but yeah that was essentially how I felt about elimination diets and how I still feel about it to this day.

Clint: That’s fabulous. And you know I think that it’s a little bit self-indulgent and I apologize in advance for this but I when I do a bit cram yoga class, sometimes I later realize the nuances, and the level of detail that are in that class is so extraordinary. And I have actually recently thought that maybe that Bikram Yoga could not have created such an incredible sequence in not only his lifetime but the previous lifetimes before him of his gurus. Because the wisdom in the postures and I’ll bring this back to your point in a minute. The wisdom in the postures and the nuances are so extraordinary that it covers all aspects of your body’s health, and so preventative to injury that cannot have been created in one lifetime. Now coming back, some people might judge me and say of course yoga’s been around forever, these postures have come around forever, but the combination of them and everything it’s amazing.

Alexander: And at that temperature, I mean at that temperature.

Clint: The temperature yeah, the whole thing. So when you made the comment about the subtleties of the Paddison Program and why some things are there and so forth may not be fully explained, but I have had what I can only describe as a little eureka moments whilst researching this disease for so long. Then every one of those little Eureka’s goes into the content so that it contains almost like a highlight reel of the best things that I’ve learnt over all the years and learned from other people. So whilst I believe that it has a lot of room for improvement which I’m putting into my book. I keep mentioning my book but it does seem to drag out a lot because we’ve got three kids who are four and under, and it makes it all very hard. We don’t have a babysitter so it’s us all the time. But it will get done and the fleshing out of some of these nuances is inside the book, and I think people will appreciate that more. But thank you for the obviously a very very big compliment, and I’m glad you found some of those little gems and nuggets yourself.

Alexander: I’m just going to say this so there’s a physical record of my statement, I believe you’re a man who is far ahead of his time when it comes to your medicinal sort of inference and contribution to society as a whole. I think you’re the first man on this planet to finally do something that is innovating for people who have been abandoned.

Clint: Thanks man.

Alexander: And I think that what you do is extremely empowering. I’ll just say this for the record, one day I believe people are going to realize how much actual science and truth there is to your research, and your studies, and your program. And I believe there will come a time where you will get the credit you deserve, as long as you keep on this path, and you keep helping people man, I believe you will get there eventually. That’s why I told you early I believe you’re steal at 50 dollars.

Clint: When the book gets published and it’s 25 bucks I mean it’s even going to get cheaper. So it’s not about you know, the value benefit equation is obviously normatively disparate, because this is about an improvement and a turning around of your entire life. So whether or not it’s 50 dollars or 5000, the benefits still far outweighs the cost. But as I said the price is actually going to get cheaper as it becomes just the book available on Amazon. Ultimately I want to just have a book and a support group that’s really all I want. And so I want the book to be so valuable that it’s only people who just want me to coach them who have to pay anything more than like are the equivalent of a meal out, you know what I mean? So that everyone has access to this information. But thank you, those are very big words and I really appreciate that and I think that my reward is just to make it more accessible to people and for it to work, it has has to work. That’s the thing we want results, it has to work, and that’s what I want more than else. If we get people feeling better because it works, then I feel successful as a physicist, my background before I got into entertainment and stuff. that I’ve worked something out that works and that’s really satisfying and it helps people.

Alexander: That’s amazing to hear by the way man, it’s only good vibes when I hear that from someone who is in it for all the right reasons and is doing that out of pure willingness to just help people right?

Alexander: Yes so, looking back at that all that period before I was on a bunch of those drugs and I reached the low point. Before the low point, I had tried a lot of different diets and none of those diets worked. If anything, every diet I tried if any of them were beneficial, the benefits were very short lasting it was a couple of days, a week at the very most. And then as soon as you know I’d go through my normal methotrexate cycle the day before my methotrexate, I’d get you know your classic flare up symptoms which is basically my body awaiting that day why shoot shoot shoot it into me again. And yeah it was just the cycle, no matter what I tried and I’m stuck to some of these diets for weeks on end and I didn’t even see the slightest benefit. All the benefits would just placebo and I came to realize that the flare ups would be a strong reminder of that. So I feel like you can definitely make that inference and be able to know deep in your heart when something is working you’ll know for the flare ups. The flare ups are a beautiful thing because they reveal the extent of our disease markers, and they’re also the only real indicator of how bad what we’re going through is. That’s why I said at the beginning of the chat ,like we can’t look at blood tests, like I could go on about my CRP which by the way has gone down from 2.5 to 0.5 since being on your program. But that’s not what I want to talk about, that’s not what I feel should be focused on because really when we look at how people benefit from your program it’s all about the symptoms. And in the early stages it’s hard when you’re on meds, it’s hard to see how something’s benefiting you. So I was lucky that I had flare ups because without a flare ups I wouldn’t be able to see what worked and what didn’t.

Clint: That’s right, they are your alarm signal, and if you don’t have any alarm signal because those alarm signal is being suppressed by the meds then you don’t know how you’re reacting to the foods. And so I like to have people have a small amount of available flare ups to them, so that if they have a reaction it’s not going to keep them in bed that day. But they’re going to have a sore finger or two and it’s going to be a problem and they’re going to know oh there’s my alarm signal. So the fact that you also had those, meant yes you were getting that feedback mechanism.

Alexander: That’s right.

Clint: So Alexander we’re nearly at the hour and a half mark so I want to try and pull this to a close. Tell us how you are at the moment and with your symptoms, and tell us what you’re heading towards and how confident you are with those ambitions.

Alexander: Mate, I am feeling better than I have since even my holiday to Europe. I am feeling, I’m actually feeling better than I did when I was at the gym and I first got those pains in my hands when I was lifting. I feel better than that man. I feel wiser, I feel stronger, but more importantly I feel like what ever comes at me in life no matter how bad it is, I can conquer it. Because now I have the right mindset, that’s what it’s all about. Any program that helps people is about the mindset. Just as much as it is about the little details, it’s also about the mindset. Now if I didn’t have the mindset to actually get to myself then I would not have invested money in myself, I would not have gone out in Europe and bought those expensive shoes, I would not have bought that amazing Herman Miller chair in my job, I would not have bought the Steelcase leap chair I’m sitting on right now, I would not have bought your program Clint.

Alexander: So I just want to say one thing to conclude all those people and you see a lot of them talking about your program, saying that it didn’t work, they tried it it didn’t have the effects. What I do on the support forums? I make it my mission to target those people because to me those people have the best hope of succeeding, they’re already on the right path. Obviously they are not on it yet, otherwise they would be having the benefits but they are the ones that can benefit the most because they are already their hearts already in the right place. Their mind just needs to follow, they need to have that balance. Once the mind is in that mindset to actually invest in things that are good for you and give it a try before you assume that something doesn’t work. As soon as you put trust in other people at least enough to do it their way for a few months, how can you know? All those people could talk about your program not working, I noticed there’s trend. Now this is just my perspective and my experience from talking to people and helping them for support forums. Basically they all have one thing in common, they say they follow your program but when I follow up with them and I actually go back the first thing I ask is, have you purchased the program and have you followed the first 12 days? And you know what, all of them all of them I haven’t come across one person who has, not one person has followed the 12 steps.

Alexander: So you know a lot of people including me, I was guilty of this one of the main reasons why I didn’t purchase your program first when you first inspired me and gave me that passion and hope. Why I didn’t purchase it? Was because I didn’t hit rock bottom. It took me hitting rock bottom to see that there was something wrong with my mindset, because everything that I was trying before that wasn’t working. So my mind immediately realized what I’ve been trying before hasn’t worked I need to try something new, I need to change my thinking. My thinking hasn’t helped me so far, my thinking needs to change. So I changed my thinking man, I change my thinking, and when I change my thinking and I looked at how in Risk I was of having serious side effects possibly dying maybe even following the path of depression to the point where I feel like life isn’t worth living anymore. You know the only way of living is to be severely sedated on something. I was like, no mindset has to change drastically now and I have to basically do everything in my power. So if you’re not doing everything in your power, and you haven’t suffered enough. And if you haven’t suffered enough then I hope you suffer enough, I hope anyone in the world suffers enough to be able to find that mindset and finally be able to find the wisdom to do everything in their power, because once they do everything in their power that’s when good things happen. All they need is the knowledge there or that guide to do it. And if they have the right mindset it will happen, it’s like that for everything. And why I’m saying this because I hope people can relate and I hope you can relate to that from other aspects of life. Because a lot of things in life are relatable.

Alexander: With the Paddison Program, people who don’t have the right mindset, that don’t follow those 12 steps, that don’t want to invest the 50 dollars. They find these little demos like I did and they think that that’s good enough to test the waters to get their time toe the ocean, but the Paddison Program is not an ocean you dip your toe into. the Paddison Program is like this warm Jacuzzi that you have to just leap into and just relax in for like a long period of time at least a couple of hours or you know in layman’s terms in real time, you need to try it for few months. And man you need to give it a chance but you need to try it, you need to give it your all, you need to give it your all. If I didn’t give it my all, it wouldn’t have worked for me and giving it your all is very simple, you get the program you read the program, you follow the program to the exact, you follow every step. Just making the recipes from your recipe book, that’s a lazy a half passed attempt to get better, that will not work. You want it to work? Follow the steps and there’s a very good reason why you did those 12 steps and that is because the majority of people who start off on the program or who have who have reached the point of suffering to the point where they have to try something that has helped so many other people out there they’ve exhausted all other options. They get to that point, most of those people including myself have had such a bad guy that they can’t, they just can’t leap into the reintroductory foods but some of us veterans eat later on down the track. Funny enough I was watching your podcasts that made me hear about that first time, because I had your little demo and it talked about it briefly. But when I watch your podcasts I remember you talking with a woman, I can’t give you the exact name but I remember you saying that, it was my experience as well that helped shaped my understanding that made me realize that you can’t just leap into something you have to slowly build up to it.

Alexander: And now that I look back at that and those words of wisdom that you said, I can see that in other parts of my life as well. I can see that was anything good, what you preach it’s a combination of science the best known and so that I’m aware of and I’ve tried a lot of things. And on top of that spirituality, I don’t think enough people give you credit for the spiritual side of things. And if you find the time to come down and do seminars I think that would be amazing thing, because I believe that reaching out to people like that would be a great way to spread something that I feel needs to be adopted by the world. It’s just a matter of time one day hopefully fingers crossed, you’ll be able to win that battle against all those awful things that Big Pharma has planted in people. This idea that there is only one solution, there is not one solution. There are many solutions but with RA, I can only share my experiences out of all the solutions out there. All being viable in their own way to some extent, yours is the only one that’s viable in every way and to the full extent.

Alexander: You know what I’m doing now? I’m waking up every morning, I’m spending 12 hours on my computer desk at home building my business, my back feels great. Every few hours I stretch, I follow your program still to the exact. I still get tempted every week by people saying come out for beers, come out for once. Even my family sometimes they’ll say sit down for dinner. What’s changed? I give it my all now, I don’t give in. At no point do I say yes, at no point do I say sure let’s sit down for a drink. I’d say sure but I don’t drink alcohol, so let’s have a milkshake, let’s have a juice . Oh not milk shake, I don’t drink milk. I say let’s go to a nice healthy cafe, (inaudible)

Clint: You make it on your terms that’s the key one. You set the location, you set the time so that you’re not eating at like 7:30, 8:00 at night when you’re meant to be finished eating and whatever. So good man.

Alexander: It’s not just people (inaudible), it’s every strong person in the world. What they will start doing when they grow up, when they go through the suffering that gives them that mindset that makes them want it change, what do they do? They start adopting new things, they start doing things on their terms. That’s the key point here, they do it on their terms. You can only do it on your terms when you give it your all, that’s it it’s all in or nothing. And that’s why I spend 12 hours a day working on my business because I’ve the power to, I have the power to and you gave me that hour my friend. So again man I just want to say, you hold the power and I really hope that that power, is going to be able to touch more people’s lives. I hope that the greater forces, and all the lovely people in this world work together and help you make your program something that’s going to be adopted by a lot more rheumatologists really. That’s something I hope for.

Alexander: My rheumatologist told me that there would be little chance I would ever be able to do sports again. And they said if that is it would have to be something light. I’m building up my muscles every day, I’m starting a new way of thinking and I want to contribute to all the great people in the world that are doing innovative things that people with rheumatoid arthritis. I want to help people develop their body and muscles and build back their strength and I want to make people realize that you can be a good looking person with RA, you can still be the best person. You just have to do it a different way. I’m actually more rich and good-looking. I’m getting way more compliments from women than I ever have before in my life, and that’s all thanks to me doing everything in my power to get fit and strong. How did I start doing it? I started reaching out to people on your support forum and hearing about how they were able to exercise. I heard it in the testimonials, first I heard it in your presentations which by the way were really touching. But then I heard it in the testimonials and once I heard it in the testimonials I thought this no denial, if it happened to claim it’s happening for all these people, then it can happen for me. (inaudible)

Alexander: So (inaudible) now I’m going out there and I am doing resistance strength training in the pool every day. I use the (inaudible) gloves, I used the resistance paddles. There are other things out there too but there are viable options out there.

Clint: Yes what we need what we really could need is an ambassador for this program of someone who looks physically fantastic. So you can fill that spot which already from that little bicep flex, I can tell that you’re already in good shape/ That would be great because that’s an area that people can really aspire to more. I get tired of reiterating the importance of resistance training. It’s for some reason goes in one ear and out the other for a lot of people who are working so hard on their diet. And they think like all my time is consumed with thinking about foods and now I have to think about going to the gym or going to yoga class. And unfortunately yes, look if we want to improve against one of the worst diseases in the world, we have to have a sufficient enough offense to compete against what is such a horrible difficult defense. we’re going to crush the defense of rheumatoid arthritis with incredible. And that offense is to get the muscles around the joints to be really strong which reduces the inflammation that the connective joints. So you keep it up.

Alexander: Funny you mention that because that’s a part of it, it’s all intertwined. It’s no coincidence that I’m able to do 12 hours a day of computer work, the other day I did 15 hours, and every now and then I will do a 15 hour day. I’m driven but the only way I can do it, it’s no coincidence that I’ve got one of the best value for money posthypnotic chairs money can buy. It’s not a coincidence that I wear my insoles because I have flat feet, I still have all of that and it’s not a coincidence that I go to the pool 4 times, sometimes 5 times a week and I do resistance strength training to a total of 1 hour each session and I give it my all. Then sometimes I go into that shower and I can barely sit, my legs are so sore and I can barely scrub my hair my arms are so sore. But you know what I did it, I did exactly what I was able to do in the gym to my muscles. And I did it in a better way because my joints actually feel a hell of a lot more flexible. I’m actually almost through the splits now. It’s great things to me.

Clint: I’d very much like to see those exercises that you do because they are area of that we have not explored in any way. So I’m not familiar with the exercises that you’re talking about in the gym, but if you can build muscle in a pool then we want to know about that. So let’s talk about that another time, I’m going to have to wrap this up because we’ve actually set a new record for length of podcast. So thank you for having so much to say and being so passionate about what you’re saying because, passion drives action and you’ll be able to continue this to influence more people. You mentioned before about your hopes for me to reach more people and to have more impact. Well coming on this podcast then and sharing your story gives me more information to share with people and help people so thank you very much.

Alexander: Clint, it was my pleasure to be on this show and I’m so proud to be able to push this podcast to the maximum time. I have an exhausting amount of passion for things that I believe in, and things that I pursue from the heart. It’s that combination of passion and love that makes that un-exhausting. And you know what, just that passion, just that desire alone that’s never enough. It’s faith, once you combine it with faith that’s when you become unstoppable. And I think it takes rock bottom for a lot of people to finally have faith that there is an answer, but they’ve just not been gone about it the right way.

Alexander: So I really hope that everything you’re doing continues, and I hope that I have a chance to somehow contribute to it more. So that more people in this world can have faith knowing that the program is here, there is a program like tailored to specifically rheumatoid arthritis that does work and has worked with so many people including myself who is in the best shape I’ve ever been and is happier than I’ve ever been oddly enough. I’m actually happier than I was years ago before this disease.

Alexander: So thank you for having me again made it was an absolute pleasure. I wish you the best of luck with your business. Godspeed my friend.

Clint: Thanks Alexander.