November 13

Carrie Is Overcoming Rheumatoid Arthritis With The Paddison Program

We discuss how:
– Carrie was diagnosed RA three years ago
– She’s been on Meloxicam, Methotrexate, Embrel and Plaquenil
– After starting with the Paddison Program, she’s down to only Plaquenil
– Carrie used to have headaches and fatigue, and it had an impact on her family as well
– Carrie was inspired by so many other Paddison Program success stories
– Right after starting the Program she had great relief from the inflammation
– One type of exercise in particular was very helpful
– Her family support was crucial

Clint: Thanks for tuning in today whether you’re are watching this online or whether or not you’re listening to this on your iPhone or an Android device. I’m here with Carrie today who’s going to share her story of how far she has come in transforming her inflammation and swelling with rheumatoid arthritis using the Paddison Program. Good day Carrie!

Carrie: Hi Clint! Thank you so much for having me.

Clint: Oh, it’s always a pleasure. These are the funnest most enjoyable part of my job. Speaking to and meeting in person lovely people like yourself to hear how far you’ve come. Now you were a part of our support group for some time and you’ve done really well. But I want you just to give us a snapshot. First of all, before you dig into the details of what was your sort of what is your Before and After.

Carrie: Well my before was miserable and helpless and depressed I would say. Probably a good three years ago is when I was diagnosed with RA. And how far I’ve come from since that time is amazing and I have increased energy levels, my inflammation is greatly reduced. I’ve gone from being on Meloxicam and Methotrexate and Embrel and Plaquenil. I’m down to just Plaquenil in that amount of time. And that’s all due to changes in diet. And so, the change has been amazing. I feel like I’ve gotten my life back.

Clint: Awesome. I mean I wish every rheumatologist in the world could have just heard that first 60 seconds of our recording here because to say that diet doesn’t matter is just like saying that the earth is flat. That’s the kind of mentality that exists right now in the modern day is thinking that diet doesn’t play an impact or a significant impact with this inflammatory arthritic condition. So, thank you for that. Now let’s dig a little deeper. We want to explore your story more go into that in some detail and then for the back half of the conversation we will extract from you as many tips and ideas. And I guess massaged versions of our program that you put in place to help listeners so that they can say OK well that might be something that I can tweak or work on a little more. So, before we get to that let’s explore a little bit more deeply you said maybe you were four, four years ago or something. Take us back to that moment. How did it.. what were your thoughts on how it triggered and how did that play out.

Carrie: I think for me it was hard to figure out really what triggered it because I don’t have rheumatoid arthritis in my family. There’s a lot of auto-immunity I do have a thyroid disorder. So, a lot of those things were in place I think for me it was a perfect storm of a number of things. I was suffering from a lot of headaches. So, I was taking a lot of medication for that migraines and other headaches as well. I was under a lot of stress in my job.

Clint: Okay. Now Carrie were those for those headaches were you taking nonsteroidal and inflammatory drugs.

Carrie: Oh yeah.

Clint: Painkillers?

Carrie: Painkillers, Excedrin, Tylenol, Advil.

Clint: OK. So, they are doing an absolute job on your digestive system setting you up with massive leaky gut, letting all of those undigested proteins and bacterial proteins entering the blood. OK. And then add to that a lot of stress. OK. Thanks.

Carrie: A lot of stress in my job and I was going through menopause at the same time, so I’m not convinced that hormones didn’t come into play there a little bit. I think it probably was a factor. So, before everything sort of kind of showing that set me to thinking it was RA, I was having a lot of headaches. I was also experiencing that my feet were burning, which was just the strangest thing it would happen at night and it would just feel like they were on fire. So, I have to get up and walk on the towel bathroom, or put him in cold water or something just to kind of get that to calm down. And nobody could figure out why. I had no idea what was triggering that I had no idea. And then my joints started to hurt kind of in the summer of 2014. My hands started to be achy and nodules were forming on the joints of my fingers on both hands. And I was sharing this with a friend of mine who happens to have rheumatoid arthritis. And she said Carrie, you need to go see somebody. She said I’m afraid this is probably what’s happening to you. So, this was like really early on. Things were just kind of starting to happen. And of course, like in many states there aren’t very many rheumatologists in Montana. And there were even fewer good ones. So, it took me a long time to get in to see a rheumatologist.

Carrie: And in the meantime, I spent a lot of time on the internet reading things that were mostly not helpful and mostly really frightening, you know pictures of people with rheumatoid arthritis. And what the prognosis is, and all the medications and it was scary. It’s just. it’s awful. And so, I get in to see the rheumatologist and he did blood work. And of course, the only thing that flagged for me was the CCP antibody. And that was a very weak positive. I was you know nothing else flagged. So, I was probably in the very early stages of it. But he wasn’t completely convinced that that was what was going on. Even though the symptoms at that point were much more- my knees hurt you know both hands the joints of both hands hurt, I was convinced that’s what it was it just took a little longer to convince him that that’s what it was. So, he put me on Plaquenil and Meloxicam actually put me in a (inaudible) first. I was taking four (inaudible) a day along with the Plaquenil, and then my stomach just said- Enough! That’s it! So, I went back in. We got rid of that took Meloxicam instead, ended up on the methotrexate. Not long after that because the symptoms just kept getting worse and worse and worse. And I had terrible fatigue. No energy but also then once I started taking the methotrexate pretty much one day a week I felt like I had the flu and I was nauseous, I had a terrible headache I had body aches. So pretty much lost one day a week every week. And for me that I did it on Sunday, so I could still manage my full time job.

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Carrie: So, I was losing that time with my family and my husband doing things that we did too. So, it impacted our family in many ways. And my children had grown out of the house so that was helpful I didn’t have children that I was dealing with at the time. But it impacted our whole family. And I looked at what my life was turning into thinking you know I’m 50 years old and this is what I have to look forward to for the rest of my life. It was frightening, and it was depressing, and I felt like the doctor wasn’t necessarily hearing what I was saying when I kept thinking What’s causing this, why do I have this. And really what I was getting from him was, we’re gonna give you this and this to take care of these symptoms. But it wasn’t necessarily going to fix the root of the problem that he couldn’t explain why I had that. Then kind of in that mix, I started having these electrical shock sensations, and at night they would wake me up out of a dead sleep three or four times a night. And it felt kind of like you know you’re having your heart resuscitated and somebody was going to hit you with those paddles, and he couldn’t understand why he had that he sent me to a neurologist and I had no full work up which was a nightmare. Those nerve conduction studies are not very much fun. And if I had known any secrets I would have given them all up I would be a terrible person that you would want to torture because I would tell them anything they wanted to know.

Carrie: But what the neurologist said is he felt that the neuropathy which is when he diagnosed me with a small fiber neuropathy was associated with rheumatoid arthritis. And he said once you get that arthritis under control then the neuropathy will come down. Back to the rheumatologist and he’s like no, they’re not linked, one does not have anything to do with the other. So, it took me a while, but I found a different rheumatologist. I have an internist on board also who’s kind of helping me navigate some of these things. And she referred me to a different rheumatologist and she was amazing. She was more open to other ideas as far as you know what can cause rheumatoid arthritis and was helpful in navigating some of the waters. She after a while I went back to her and I stopped eating gluten just like for a month before and we just kind a see that made a difference. I read some people did well. And so, then she suggested that I try the whole 30, im not sure if you’ve heard of the whole 30.

Clint: I’ve heard of it but I couldn’t tell you the specifics.

Carrie: It’s very. it’s pretty paleo centric but it’s also clean eating. So, it’s no dairy, no gluten, no sugar. Get rid of the additives and the preservatives and you’re eating lots of fruits and vegetables and meat mainly. Well let’s say that wasn’t too far off from what I was doing anyway. I’ve got nothing to lose and if this can help at all then I’m going for it. So about two weeks into that. I started to notice that that I was feeling better and had a little bit more energy and I felt a little bit better. And I was like Okay, so maybe there’s something to this. So, and then partway through my whole 30, your program came up on my Facebook feed. And I’m like well that’s interesting. So, I clicked on it read your stuff looked all over your website and that oh my gosh there’s somebody that’s done this and there’s some hope to have some kind of control over this, and that diet really is what’s going on. It’s leaky guy it’s all these things along with environmental things and lots of other stuff too. But I was just so relieved to find that somebody else had done that. And it was a group of people that were doing it and who had information.

Carrie: And so, I thought OK I started this whole 30, I’m going to go ahead and finish that because then I’m feeling pretty good and I wasn’t quite ready to do your program yet. So, I finished up the whole 30, and I did feel better I could tell that diet was making a difference. But your program when I looked at how from where I was at that point seemed really extreme, you know from what I was doing to that I’m like oh my gosh I don’t know if I can do that. So, I pounded it for a couple of months and then I started slowly eliminating kind of food groups and areas kind of rather than jumping in with both feet initially. But what I found on the whole 30 is that I was having problems with meat and I didn’t know why, it would trigger the neuropathy and I knew it was a problem, but I didn’t understand why it was such a big problem for me.

Clint: Right. So, when you say it triggered the neuropathy. So, this meant that you were seeing a relationship between eating the meat and having those sorts of spasms in your joints or in your limbs.

Carrie: Yes, it’s kind of an all over limb thing and I called him more like an electrical shock a buzzing feeling like you touched a live wire or something. So those would be more pronounced at night if I to eat meat. So, as I kind of eased my way into your program that was kind of the first thing that I let go of. And as a woman from Montana who grew up on a ranch on a farm, they grew up. they raised grain and we and meat, raised beef. It was really hard for this farm girl to say OK I can’t eat wheat and I can’t eat beef. I don’t quite know what about the beef thing yet, but I can’t do it. So then as I progressed into your program, I kind of jumped in and I didn’t do the cleanse because my weight had kind of gone into this free fall. And I was really afraid that if I did that I was going to lose a lot more weight than I had. And so, I did. I started your program and started seeing tremendous relief from the inflammation, and then rapidly started to kind of calm down a little bit it was still there but it was much fewer episodes and they weren’t as strong. So that was all hugely positive. So, in the next year or so I started out last October. It’s been a year that I’ve kind of been doing that. So, in a year’s time I’ve gone off of the methotrexate completely. I stopped taking Embrel as well.

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Carrie: But each time I have kind of backed off on one of those medications, a lot of the food issues would come back to the top, because they are masking symptoms and they’re masking all these things going on and so then I would feel like I would take one step or two steps back. And I would have to kind of go back to the beginning and take foods off and try to figure out what the cause was. I had a really difficult time with the reintroduction piece of this whole thing. It’s been really hard for me to tell what is causing the problem when there’s so much going on and there’s so many different foods that you’re trying to eat cause you’re trying to get you know a variety of eat the rainbow you know for a variety of fruits and vegetables. And good things to eat. It’s hard you know what exactly is causing the problems. So, I struggled with that. I’m still struggling with that. But like I said I’ve gotten off those medications which is huge. I mean my energy has returned. The reduction in inflammation. I mean I was having also a lot of compressed nerve issues. I had a really painful pinched nerve in my elbow. I had a fasciitis I had sciatica. And those things would flare in and that pain from that was often worse than the pain from the rheumatoid arthritis. So, getting those things to calm down was really a goal for me. Then this summer, I was just listening to a podcast because I’ve listened to all kinds of things in case I might hear something that might work for me. And I heard someone talk about lectins, and I’d never heard of a lectin I had no idea what a lectin was. But as I learned a little bit more about it I thought maybe this is something that will help me. Maybe this is part of what my problem is with all these food sensitivities. So, I looked into it more and found out that you know lectins are proteins is just like gluten is a protein, but it’s found in you know wheat and corn and soy, and but also in a lot of the things that I was eating on the Paddison Program, quinoa and brown rice and legumes and lentils and things like cucumbers and melons. Those are pretty high in lectins too. So, as I looked at that I had to kind of shift some things around a little bit and you can change a lectin in a load of things also by cooking them. So, if you pressure cook your black beans and your lentils and your quinoa, it reduces the lectins so that you can eat it and it’s not. doesn’t causes much inflammation. So, when they change some of the items and then I change the way I cook them I saw a pretty significant decrease in the inflammation as well. It’s like it took it down another notch. And that notch kind of helped a lot of the nerve issues as far as the uncompressed nerve issue as well as some of the neuropathy symptoms kind of you know really took a step back. So, I’ve had to kind of make some changes to allow for a number of food sensitivity issues. I mean I definitely have a leaky gut. There is no question around it.

Carrie: I guess I was hoping that maybe I would be a little more healed at this point it’s hard to be completely patient but when I look back to where I was, you know three or four years ago to where I am now it’s gigantic. But at the same time (inaudible). I tired of being sweet potatoes.

Clint: Awesome wonderful account of how far you’ve come in that period of time. Like if a drug could provide you with the kind of improvements that you’ve experienced by doing these things naturally, that drug would be the rheumatoid arthritis drug of choice and there would be no other. And so that’s why you know I put a lot of work and time and energy and effort into trying to spread this kind of these kind of stories like yourself and everything else that I do to try and put forward the case that hey this should be the default position for anyone with rheumatoid arthritis or inflammatory autoimmune condition. You should be doing this program in parallel to your medications because, a huge portion of those people on those medications could then lower their medications and just require less of them and live a healthier, long term you know enjoyable life. So that’s why we’re doing this. So, you know thank you for sharing what you’ve shared so far. You’ve raised a couple of things. I, the lectins thing is interesting I listen to one of Dr. Clapper’s best friends who was speaking at the conference that I recently attended called the plant based nutrition health care conference in Anaheim. And she spoke from stage and answered a Q and A actually about the lectins thing which tends to be like the the bro-science kind of need either approach to trying to argue why a plant based diet isn’t healthy. And the lectins thing is interesting, one of the biggest source of lectins is actually legumes. So, something if you look at like a lentum. Right. So, it’s one of them or Beans have very high content of lectins, and yet in the Blue Zones book which examines the longest living cultures on the planet they found that the single most important food that one person can eat is linked to longevity and the longest possible life are legumes. And so, when we have them it’s sort of a no no no. Here’s the distinction. When you have rheumatoid arthritis, you have an absolutely terrible gut disorder. You absolutely ruined your intestines and then you have to be careful to point the finger at certain foods that are absolutely proven to be extremely healthy for human beings, and blaming them when the problem still lies in your gut OK, You’re the abnormality. Now this is the same when it comes to like oatmeal, Why? It takes us a while to graduate to be able to eat oatmeal, because to the average person without an autoimmune disease who haven’t eaten meat, dairy and oils in their upbringing. Oatmeal is not only so easy for them to digest but it’s also extremely you know healthy and simple. But then like us, like me, like you, we went through a period where we couldn’t digest even the simplest of easy foods and something like white potatoes. Another food that you know is extraordinarily healthy for humans, I couldn’t eat white potatoes for the longest period of time because I’d ruined my gut with five years of antibiotics and then eaten a Western diet and drank throughout my twenties and a 2-minute noodles like they were you know going out of fashion during my early 20s. And so, foods that I couldn’t tolerate were unfair to blame those foods that I you know caused a problem internally that that made me different to what my intestinal system should look like. Now that’s not to say that your experience isn’t real, and it absolutely is.

Clint: And my solution instead of you know eliminating specific food groups that were high in lectin content was simply to, stay very close to the baseline foods for long periods. And then reintroduce foods one at a time that I found my body could tolerate and stick with foods close to those. So, for me it might have been say a fruit like a papaya and I could tolerate papaya. So then I thought OK well I can try you know melons and I could do cantaloupe I could realize I could do watermelon, and then I would stay close to those food groups and expand from there. It took me ages to be able to eat any kind of lentil or bean which again I just group the lectin into like high protein if we’re talking about high proteins. If you’re eating foods that are high in protein you’re adding the amount of work to the digestive system to eliminate those proteins so that undigested proteins don’t enter the bloodstream. And so, for me it was just a broad grouping of fruits, foods that are high in protein which includes the lectin version if you like. And then foods that are high in fat, and in fact that’s the order in which they are for most people the challenge to the body fat is always the most challenging for everyone, because direct link to leaky gut so everything around the fat molecules as they pass through the intestines passes into the bloodstream. Secondly with the proteins and some people don’t do too bad reintroducing high protein foods fairly quickly, and then the fruits and fruit intolerances can normally be resolved in only a matter of a few months because it’s just a sugar strain feeding bacteria and once they are eliminated then most people can tolerate fruits fairly easy fairly quickly. So that’s one-part of what I heard a very interesting story. The other part that I I want to comment on is you know if you’re frustrated after getting off methotrexate and Enbrel, obviously we’re all type A personalities when we get this disease and it’s such a type A attitude to the say Look I’m off to the biggest possible drugs you could take with this condition in 18 months or whatever you’ve done.

Clint: And to be frustrated after that little bit, perhaps the expectations a little bit high because coming off those drugs as you say you’re going to see the true state of affairs underneath. Once you’ve taken the tar poll and all the roof off and you’ve had a look underneath and then the reality of the inflammation is revealed. And so, I even advise this through, I was just working on this the other day the way in which to taper off drugs. If we look at this what you’ve achieved but do it on a very micro scale, as a drug dosage is reduced then I have people anticipate some kind of pain return and to be ready to go back to the basic foods to increase their exercise, and not even to attempt it unless they have quite a lot of pain buffer meaning their quality of life would not be impacted whatsoever if a little bit of pain came back. And there are some other criteria that I have where I believe people must meet before they should reduce the drugs. Now to be able to get off a drug entirely, then you’re obviously going to see everything all at once or over a short period of time even 18 months to be off those two drugs is extraordinary. And so, you’re definitely going to be on a roller coaster of pain returning, and frustration, and everything especially if your foods were quite advanced in your reintroduction process. Take all take those big drugs away and you’re going to be absolutely needing to get back to some of the more healing foods and stay there for a long period of time.

Clint: You know I was on that baseline meal for months upon months and going to become you know every single day, and maximum dose of Methotrexate just that I wouldn’t worsen. So my situation was certainly a delicate one and an extreme one, and I could not have you know had more of the advance foods in my diet for you know a good year and a half into when I actually felt like I was on the right path. And that’s after doing eight months of raw food prior to the beginning portion of the Paddison Program. So, I just want to reassure you that you’ve achieved unbelievable results, and not to feel disappointed but just to look back at what you have achieved, and it is absolutely extraordinary as greater progress as anyone that we’ve had on the show. So, you on the path that you’re on, you know should be able to continue to lower medications and heal. I would caution you to get too not too caught up in this whole lectin thing. But to use the grouping that I mentioned before, and I think that will serve you tremendously. So awesome. Now what did I draw here? I drew a little slippery slope for myself I just a little symbol. Oh, that’s why I drew that. OK, I drew that to say just to re-emphasize as well how well you’ve done because the average outcome with someone with rheumatoid arthritis is to worsen. it’s to go down the slippery slope, you know the whole gravity is pulling you down all the time. The disease designed to break down your joints and to constantly worsen your quality of life.

Clint: So, to stay the same on the same drug and to not worsen year upon year upon year makes rheumatologist think they’ve achieved a miraculous results. They feel amazing if they just got you on a ton of drugs and you don’t experience side effects that won’t make you want to make you want to give up on life and you don’t worsen. They think that’s amazing. Your level of amazing is a whole different order of magnitude. To be able to also go through those reductions of those really heavy meds and feel a tremendous amount better. So that’s why you’re on the slippery slope.

Carrie: I think, to just attach touch back on the lectin thing too I think as much as anything it helped me understand why I couldn’t eat meat. Because the animals were eating the corn and soy in the wheat that we’re you know GMO and sprayed with round up in all those things and all that stuff was then also then travelling into me. And I think that’s what I probably was reacting to as much as proteins that was all the stuff that those animals had eaten as well.

Clint: Absolutely.

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Carrie: Yeah. I think for me it helped explain things as much as anything. And I don’t eat beans and lentils. I mean you know I’m not eating those and all at this point. But I think it was helpful to know that there were ways around some of those things that by cooking you know different things that it did help a little bit. I still have problems with even with quinoa. So, I think maybe just for me it’s just one of those things I didn’t I just have to set aside for a while. And you know yeah, I can tolerate white rice and that’s you know that’s kind of where I am with that.

Clint: Well yeah, I’ve always maintained and in fact I got into small debates with a production company that we are in talks with doing a documentary about what I do and my story and everyone. And the frustration is, that they want one plan that everyone can follow. And they said because otherwise it’s not as easy to sort of you know what let’s just let’s just do one plan. When they’re looking at what I say and what I suggest, and I want everyone to go through the exact same thing it just makes life easier and I said look, I would love that but I’ve been doing this now for too long. And I can assure you that some people aren’t doing well on some of the fundamental foods sometimes, and I don’t want to force this situation. And my argument is, we are smart enough to be able to take at least some degree of responsibility about our own introduction process and not rely on the system. The system is in place to get you on the road and there are clear boundaries on each side of the road. You don’t drive off. You don’t drive off that shoulder of the road or that that keeps you off the meat dairy and oils. There are many more guidelines within that taking you through the optional cleanse, the baseline foods, and so forth. But sometimes individuals like yourself, need to make adjustments because one thing regardless of its health benefits and the fact that it works for 19 out of 20 other people wonderfully It just doesn’t quite fit.

Clint: And that’s because you’ve got a unique microbiome, a unique genetic predisposition, and you’ve got a unique history of certain medications. And so, something is not quite working, let’s not force the issue. You’ve got the foundations to work with and the knowledge, you’ve got intelligence use it you know. Yeah. And so.

Carrie: I couldn’t agree more. I couldn’t agree more. Everybody is different and no one size is going to work for everybody. It’s just part of trying it in see what works and you’re going back and trying something else. Oh, I totally agree.

Clint: Yeah. And I think it’s actually a very good sign that you can tolerate the basmati or white rice or sushi rice all tend if one person tends to do well on one they can only eat all of those. Because for a lot of people that’s a little bit more challenging a little bit further down the track it was for me and it is for most others. And so that’s a wonderful sign. You know that’s a sign to me that you’re not actually still at one of the most earliest fundamental stages. That you have developed a tolerance to more advanced foods, and that it might just be the quinoa. And with the quinoa has sort of didn’t specify clearly but it’s about one in 20 or maybe even one less than that who I see have a problem with that. And about the same amount I have a trouble with the Buckwheat. And so normally people just leave one out and the other if that happens. But I don’t like to dwell on it much because people can sometimes then jump on a band. Oh, it’s the quinoa. No, it’s not. It’s because of so many other factors and we’re not looking for zero pain. We’re looking for low plant pain, and a platform of healing. And anyway, that’s another kettle of fish. But I guess so, you’ve already given us some great sort of ideas as to say you’ve made some variations for your own situation. Have there been some other ways in which you’ve found really helpful in your path? And it might not necessarily even be food related. Have you found for example an exercise that you’ve been using or affirmations or social support or will it be some things that have really helped you through all of this?

Carrie: I started doing yoga, which has been tremendously helpful. It’s not bikram yoga but it’s the woman that is willing to work with people that have joint issues or maybe had their hip replaced and, so you know she will customize things to different people’s needs and what they can do. And that has been tremendous. And not only just building strength and flexibility but then also understanding different structures and stuff I can do when the nerve issues arise you know sciatic is acting out and some of those things that’s been really helpful. I’ve been blessed with a very supportive family. My husband is amazing, and he has eaten more vegetables in the last year of his life than ever before and he appreciates that. But he’s been very supportive, and tolerant of you know these new dishes that I’ll make and I you use another version of Brussel sprouts. He’s like okay, that they’ve been great. Yeah. And just a very supportive family. And I’ve also done some other things thinking about just the environmental and toxic load. So, I switched all of my food storage containers to glass. Ditch the plastic, I don’t drink out of plastic water bottles. You have a water filter on our home tap, and just being more active I think because when you’re in so much pain it’s you don’t want to move let alone you know be active and move. We bought a camper so we’re out doing a little bit more of that type of thing. Also, we’re doing that kind of stuff. I buy organic is as much as I can. I also changed my skin care, and body care, into more natural products. I’m trying to get some of the known you know problem things out of there. They’re thinking you know if I’ve kind of been this perfect storm of different things it’s hard to know. You know what caused it, or what is contributing to it what’s contributing to the ongoing neuropathy. so just kind of trying to take apart my environment a little bit and take away any of those things that could be adding to it. Also trying to meditate I’m not very good at that I need to keep working at it. My mind just keeps going and have a hard time kind of shutting things down. But I’m working toward that. So, it’s a little bit more relaxation and that. I mean just being more mindful and I think looking for the positive things and being grateful for the blessings that we have, and doing more when I do have the energy allows me to kind of step out and do more for other people and do more in the community which is which is a blessing as well. Because I wasn’t sure I was going to be able to get back to that

Clint: Yes. And now the one thing I noticed is you know when I look at people who are in pain or suffering I just have health conditions. It’s a completely different view that I have on the world before I got sick. I used to be quite harsh. I want to say because I’d never experienced any kind of serious health condition prior to suddenly getting rheumatoid arthritis. And so, for me you know I guess I had a very narrow view on the world and I used to look at people and think oh that that would never happen to me or not even a lot of compassion for those situations. I’m not talking about people who had like in wheelchairs, and who had physical disabilities. I mean people who might have just been you know not in a physical state that I would have thought would be ideal. And now when I see people I think oh gosh I wish I could help that person in that way and why can’t they. I don’t eat that. And like I just find a real I’m reaching out emotionally and mentally when I’m looking at them wishing I could help them. Do you have that experience?

Carrie: Oh absolutely. And you know we had gotten to know some people that you know you know they kind of have some variety of issues going up. I have a much better understanding of the pain they’re in when they’re when they’re trying to walk and you’re trying to do these things and you know I’ve been there and I get that. But yes, I just see people in the grocery store and you look in your carts you’re like oh my gosh i can’t believe that you’re going to feed that to your family like little kids. Can’t say anything but I’m like oh my goodness. I wish that, the conversations that doctors had with people that the leading conversations would include you know what kind of food are you eating as a family. And it’s unfortunate that I had to initiate that conversation with my rheumatologist and that was she was open to it which was fantastic. But I feel like that should be some of the first things that get discussed you know along with what joint hurt today? you know what have you eaten in the last 24 hours? But yes, I did. I’m hoping that will get there. You see a little bit more I think you know slowly things are coming along but, you just look at all these children and all these people that are that are eating this way and you know where they’re going to be probably in 10 years from now some sort of autoimmune disorder is going to pop up for them. And it could be prevented by you know eating whole organic healthy foods now.

Clint: So true you know. Boy. Absolutely. We’re watching a few of our friends who are in the entertainment business going through you know what’s really popular at the moment is this ketosis process and everyone’s in the drink and these ketones and it’s a disaster. Like I I can just play this forward for the future for some of these individuals. And you know it’s just statistically not going to look great. And you just you know you shake your head just as we both are now. Well you know it’s delicate isn’t it because you know people are passionate about what they eat just as they are about their spiritual beliefs, and to tread on those as a friend at risks of friendship and stuff and they think Well is it worth it when it’s only a statistical increase it’s not a guarantee. You know there’s always a story of someone who smoked their whole life and eat bacon and eggs for breakfast. He lives to a hundred. Right. And so, there’s always the exception that people want to say hey, that person did fine and so your theory doesn’t work. It’s just a statistical increase of likelihood. OK. And so, you think boy you know do I want to put my friendship at risk, or do I want to just let’s hope that the statistics for the right way for my friend and you know I guess in my case by case basis we play that we play that game in our lives. When we when we have some knowledge and we know we’ve implemented it and it’s and it’s true for us and the science shows it’s true for human beings as a race.

Clint: Yeah. It’s an interesting one isn’t it? All right Carrie, well have you got any final tips you might share for listeners are watching this? Any last parting thoughts of maybe encouragement, or something that you are saying that you keep close to your heart or any final farewell thoughts for folks?

Carrie: Well I have a little embroidered stitching thing in my in my bedroom, it belonged my grandmother hung over her bed for years. So, there’s this quote I love that my grandmother loved too and it’s really helped me and it’s “God grant me the serenity, to accept the things that I cannot change. The courage to change the things that I can, and the wisdom to know the difference”.

Clint: I have come across that once or twice before. I know the sentiment. Yes it’s a nice sentiment to not dwell on the things we can’t change. Yes. But to work on those that we can sort of sentiment. Yeah.

Carrie: And I appreciate everything that you’ve done to provide us with some hope and some encouragement and a little video snippet that you send out, have been a huge help line. Even the little ones you know yeah. I think one of them that really helped me was like you’re not stretching your hand every single morning when you get up trying to see how stiff they are. I was doing that, and I’m like oh well she’s I had no idea. And then you start not talking about you know just being happy. And I think that those are really they’re messages of hope and hopefulness that we need during times of you know feeling like you know we’re in this and it can often be isolating, and discouraging when as you’re going through it. And I think that any of those kinds of uplifting messages can be really helpful to kind of get us through the day. And then just taking it one day at a time and hoping that each day will be better than the one that you just left.

Clint: Yeah. And there’s a very good chance that if we apply tremendous discipline, because I think that you know across the board the one word if anything that gives us the best results in all of this is discipline. If we apply discipline to the foods that we know that we should eat. Applied discipline by doing I exercise every day, applied discipline to finding some stress relieving activities each day mentioned meditation as one but even exercising itself. If we get to a state in which our body needs our attention more than our mind, and we just drift off into our body and keep it moving at a high intensity level, that’s meditative right there. And we apply discipline to working with our doctor to not be on the medications that are going to make it impossible to heal. And these medications we talk about in other episodes and a discipline not to get obsessed with all the different supplements that can be advertised to us and to spend our money in ways that that will really support us, which are the fundamentals the real fundamentals. It’s often the least shiny objects provide us with the biggest results. It’s not the latest supplement, it’s going back to the gym tomorrow, or Going back to yoga tomorrow as you said before. and it’s getting up and knowing that we have to find a different way to flavor our food so that we enjoy the food that’s going to heal us better. So, thank you Carrie. This has been great. I’ve enjoyed this very much and I thank you for giving up some of your Friday with me today so that we can get a lovely message out to everybody.

Carrie: Thank you for having me.

Clint: All the best going forward. And I look forward to chatting with you down the track.

Carrie: Thanks!


arth, Embrel, Meloxicam, Methotrexate, Plaquenil

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