December 12

Overcoming Rheumatoid Arthritis with a Plant-Based Diet

We discuss how:
– Ricci started having RA symptoms seven years ago
– She was running marathons and doing kickboxing and had to stop it all
– She then started a big journey through a lot of doctors and thousands of dollars in treatments
– She then went plant based and that helped her a lot with the inflammation
– She’s been cleansing all bacteria for 15 months and that gave no benefits
– A few months ago she found the Paddison Program and started adding probiotics and prebiotics
– Now she’s been pain-free for five months
– She has tweaked all her favorite meals to be plant based
– She has identified many good quality supplements in the process
– She’s also a huge advocate of smoothies

Clint: Loving and What We Do. Talking about how to reverse chronic rheumatoid arthritis and other inflammatory arthritic conditions with people who have done it. And today Ricci from Utah is going to tell us her story.

Ricci: Good day Ricci.

Ricci: Hi, so excited to be here.

Clint: It’s always exciting having these conversations isn’t it? Because not every day that you do something that every doctor in the world will tell you is impossible, but that’s what we talk about on these podcasts. And today it’s all about you, and before we go into all the details, and explore your journey just give us that sort of before and after. How are you now? compared to how you were before you’ve made all of the crucial changes that you’ve done with your diet and lifestyle.

Ricci: OK. how I am now is completely symptom free. I have no swelling anywhere, and I don’t have pain anywhere, and I feel energy and I still really really good. Where I was, I started having symptoms seven years ago, and through a big journey of a lot of doctors and alternative doctors, and a lot of thousands of dollars and treatments. I finally went plant based, it was like everything but that. Right? And that actually helped with my inflammation extremely a lot, but it wasn’t quite getting me there. And just a few months ago, after reading your book and getting in your program. And was reminded of the gut healing enzymes and probiotics, prebiotics and all of these cool things that can help us get over that last hump. I’ve been symptom free for five months now.

Ricci: And it just took two months of doing those things of therapeutic dose. I going to say, I took like you said, take it like crazy and the bromelain and all of that then my inflammation has just melted away and I am finally where I need to be.

Clint: OK. Wonderful because not just is your own story going to be fascinating and enjoyable, but it will differ from a lot of the other guests that we’ve had on the show because we’re going to emphasize then the supplementation side of what I recommend. And I don’t emphasize it as much as the diet and exercise, because that’s where most of the journey should be. But you’ve gotten to the point where you’ve gotten right to the end and you’ve got this smoldering still left in the body perhaps even more I think depending on what you’ll tell me in a second. But then you’ve added this last sort of five percent, and that five percent for you was crucial. Anthony Robbins talks about the difference between people who are good and great is often just one percent. It’s just that little bit extra. And it seems for you that that’s been the crucial factor. So, let let’s work our way towards that in your story. You’ve already said seven years ago you were diagnosed. Let’s pick it up and walk through some of the highlights over the next 10 minutes some of the highlights of the highs and lows and the lessons.

Ricci: OK. So yeah like I said I went seven years ago about right now and I started to have swelling in my wrist, and then it kind of went away, and then it popped into my foot. I had been battling really bad pneumonia. I had like a trigger I think, a bacterial trigger of some sort. I literally went from being an athlete, to running fast marathons, and teaching cycling, and kickboxing, and doing all of these very healthy active things to not being able to do them anymore.

Ricci: And they spent that winter feeling like I was fighting for my life, I felt like something was you know really taken over. I couldn’t, and I wasn’t quite testing positive for rheumatoid yet, but it was increasing every time I would go in. So, that kind of put me on a lot of other journeys. I will admit I went and addressed breast implants, I had them removed. I went and addressed my mouth, I have the mercury from my mouth. I had root canals removed, because they can really hold a lot of bacteria in Calais and things that can cause joint inflammation.

Ricci: And what I just essentially did was start with a checklist. I kind of was like check, you know I cut out dairy check, cut out gluten check, cut out this check. I addressed this, I did vitamin infusions, I did shots, I went to a rheumatologist, he recommended. He said the drugs I mean to put you on or be so bad you won’t be able to have children anymore.

Ricci: And that was a game changer for me as well as I know in your journey that that was the game changer for you. And I walked out of there and thought nope, not doing it. I don’t know how am I gonna this. But I knew, I innately knew our body could heal. I knew I didn’t. It just it just came on. I knew that somehow, I could turn that switch and off and put it away, But I didn’t know how to do it. And it was just a continuous search. I mean a constant search for me, with checklist thing. Like I said I mean and what I think really got me into a mess this spring as like I said my plant based diet was my inflammation was really, I was giving time where I didn’t have any. I mean a couple of months maybe, and then I would have a little flare up. I got on this. When you are dealing with chronic illness you try crazy stuff, you do anything to feel better. And I had been on this you know, let’s get rid of bacteria list, get a rid of virus, let’s get rid of parasites, let’s get rid of all this. So I have been literally parasite cleansing for 15 months.

Clint: Right, yup.

Ricci: No Bueno! like not good for your gut. Because even though for herbs, they’re strong herbs, they’re antibiotic herbs. And I had depleted I think, all of my good and bad bacteria. And I didn’t put that together until I started the supplementation to rebuild that part of my body. And I did.

Ricci: You know keep your immune system down, keep it knocked down. And they forget there’s no part of that that is rebuilding. And if you’re not on a good diet, you have absolutely nothing that’s rebuilding your body or your immune system. And so and you know like I said step by step, I depleted my diet I kind a cut the things that I knew, and I went to autoimmune paleo because I mean that’s what they told you for inflammation. I stumbled across plant based because I had read a guy’s book, that talked about plant based diet. And so I thought I’ll do his 30 day cleanse, It was just basically like herbs and vegetables you could eat though. I’m like oh I can do that cleanse. I can eat, I never got as hardcore as you Clint, and did all the greens, like constant green juices, I’m like, moms gotta eat here. So, I was like I can totally do that and still get to eat food, and salads and you know stuff like that. And one month on it, I felt so different with my inflammation than I was like OK I’ll do another month. Guess what guys, never went back like…

Ricci: Wow!

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Ricci: Never went back, never went back to me, never went back, never went back. I just realized OK this is a key factor in my body with my inflammation and it’s you know hyper nourishing really, is trying to get the body build up. But again, I was along doing the parasite cleanse with this. Had I not been doing that, my gut probably would have started to rebuild on its own, but the supplementation is really what it ended up helping me get over that last little hump.

Clint: OK. Well let’s chat about that in a second. I just wanted to talk a little bit about these two of couple of things that you brought up that we can drill down a bit more on. First of all, the parasite and the bacterial cleanses I also did this. Like I think you did in the early stages when you are willing to give all of your disposable income towards getting well you kind of do. I spent fourteen thousand dollars in one year on all of the different supplements, and treatments, and everything. And in that mix were some Australian products that are sort of what’s called practitioner grade. And it was called bactrex and parex, which are the brand names but they’re basically parasite cleansing herbs, strong herbs, and bacterial cleansing herbs all natural. And I did them for a long period of time as well and there was a protocol to follow with regards to you do one for a period of time, and then you follow up with this and the details escape me now. Because now it’s going back about You know 10 years.

Clint: And so I did that as well, and I have subsequently you know not decided really whether or not I think it’s a good idea or not, because they can be detrimental to healthy bacteria as well. And some of those commentual parasites may not be harmful as well, they might have a balancing effect. We don’t know do we? But certainly, I did that as well, for our listeners just for curiosity. And then the other thing I wanted you to expand on a little bit more. We had a previous guest who talked about her name’s Erica, who I met in California a lovely girl, and she talked about as well going from this autoimmune protocol paleo thing which for whatever reason has become kind of the default position for a doctor who doesn’t know any better about diet. They default to that because they know that that’s kind of what other doctors have done. And some modest results have eventuated for some patients. And I just want you to elaborate a little bit more about your experience on that. And just you know to help us anyone who is on the fence, to be no longer on the fence that that’s not a good way to go.

Ricci: OK yeah. It is the default and I’ve actually read a lot of books on it and you know what I think is what helps people, is it does focus on eating whole foods. So if you know if you’re deeply if you are taking out all that processed stuff, even if you are eating it you’re going to notice a change in your health because you are actually eating vegetables and fruits now vs you know you weren’t at all before. So they’re not taking into consideration the inflammation that actual animal products cause, because they are in that little bit of increase in health because they are adding that extra fruits and vegetables. And so I think that’s where the confusion gets because I’ll be honest it has been an up, and down back and forth, mental game. On finding what is right, and what is wrong. Coz, you read one book that says one thing and one. And you know what I finally did? Is I found people with my symptoms like you, And luck I mean I had already done this before I found you, But it just every time I find someone like you. It’s solidified in my mind. What is the anti-inflammatory diet. And so when I was paleo and doing you know fruits vegetables as green free. And doing fruits vegetables and meats, I didn’t really have any less inflammation. I didn’t have any less the consequences swelling, you know mine was then all over the place anyway, so I really didn’t notice an increase. I just knew greens and did bug me. And so I did feel maybe a little less inflammation. Getting rid of those.

Ricci: But I. In one month, could tell and it’s a huge difference in cutting meat. And honestly if I had known that month that was the last time I was ever going to eat it would’ve been a lot harder reprocessed for me I’m sure, you know because it kind of was like well I’ll do this for a month It’s good for me, and do the fruits and vegetables, and that the significant difference in inflammation. And that’s why it’s really hard for me to bite my lip now or my tongue, with people that have auto immune issues and their body is screaming with inflammation. And I just want to say, you know plant based the way, it is the way, it is the way. Act now and it’s such a, it’s almost like you’re attacking their religion when you say, you know, I was actually just working with the lady the other day…And they ended their story and their health background and all of this. He’s a cattle rancher and he lives on plain rib and stake.

Ricci: And it was like I didn’t even know how to gently like not sugarcoat this, but I was just like you know, maybe just go on mump with (inaudible) and see. Instead of saying, never never eat it again. Because I think if people would just take that month, or just take two months, not say you’re never going to do it again. But if your body responds to something in your feeling better and you felt on time, you think twice about next time you. And then what is really cool too is when you have it out for a while, and you add back and You feel that immediate consequence. And then it just becomes, easy to not bring that back into your diet. But it was, I wouldn’t say a resistant thing but I like, I love meat. So people, it’s not that they don’t love it, It’s just not good for my body. You know what I mean? Like you feel like I need you and I’m like All right you know we hunt, my family hunt. And it’s all around me all the time, but it just was not serving my body.

Clint: Well it’s no coincidence, it’s no coincidence that you love meat. You are surrounded by meat, you ate it all your life and you got rheumatoid arthritis. and you said you said a moment ago that meat is not good for your body, it’s not good for anyone’s body. Human digestive tract, thrive on carbohydrates. They’re designed to break down and to be fueled by carbohydrate as the primary source. And so as soon as we deviate from that, then we’re eating a less than optimal fuel source for the body. And if we’re eating a very large amount of meat then, by nature of doing that we obviously aren’t eating as much of the carbohydrates because we eat so much each day and you’re not want to sit around eating all day.

Clint: And so you know every time we head in a different direction there are consequences. And I always just get this little sort of head shake internally when people say to me, well I’d like to do your program and then they proudly announce but I am such a foodie. And I just think to myself well, how do you end up getting to this position is because you’re obviously foodie has a lot of different meanings to different people. But we know that for most people celebrating, if you say you’re a foodie it means you like restaurants, you like rich food, you like western food, and you like to celebrate with a alcoholic beverage with it, and then you like to taste fruits in between, and you need to make food like some kind of party every single day.

Ricci: I have say something, I am a foodie! But, I have found that, like you’ve said like that was my thing, love to go eat, loved that I’m actually in the process of a cook book. That proves you can be a foodie and eat healthy. I have been able to tweak and twist every one of my favorites to be Plant based and delicious. So I don’t buy that excuse from people, because what they just need to do more of is experiment with their vegetables. Because I don’t feel like I’d be above anything by not eating meat anymore, I don’t. And so I think foodie is like you said many different, I really consider myself a foodie. I would not put in the effort to find different ways to eat my favorite things. Because I know that’s important is to have people think what you just salad right? how you just eat salad every day? I eat salad every day, but I eat a lot of other vegetables too. So I can be a negative thing that’s associated with plant based eating that we’ve got to switch that paradigm.

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Clint: Absolutely. That is a ton of work to be done. There is a ton of work to be done. You know we’re just scratching the surface for not just sort of as a movement, not just as in terms of number of people becoming plant based. But also in the whole image around it. And I like the massive examples that can be set by recording this kind of conversations. And for you know taking inspiration from people who are really well known, you know media personalities when they are vegan, it becomes trendy. and when something becomes trendy and popular whether or not it makes sense doesn’t matter. People don’t care if it’s good for them. They do it because Kim Kardashian does it. And unfortunately, that is often the extent of decision that goes into some of these things. So if they see someone like you like you got this kind of you know Bro signs that goes on and through huge sort of followings of podcasts where the podcast guest might be a UFC fan and eat a paleo diet, believe that the healthiest way to eat is that way. And consequently, You know when females are trying to do the right thing, eat healthy and reverse an autoimmune condition, and their husband is hell bent on this mentality. Then you’ve got that internal conflict. So you know yeah there’s there’s all of that going on and I don’t…

Ricci: You know I am I have four children, and my husband. And they’re not completely plant based. But I’ll tell you I don’t, I don’t cook meat in my house. And so every night they eat plant based, every night for dinner, and in our house they eat plant based. And you know my husband at first was kind of like gosh like where’s the chicken? You know but he’s full, and he knows it’s better for him. And like I said it’s just shifting that thought process around, and teaching our children. And you know teaching our children that, the plate that we’ve been taught was the plate doesn’t have to be the plate. It can look totally different. And it’s you know present that. But it is sad, that you know people don’t really look into it but if someone says you know I used to be into fitness right before I got RA, I say I was a marathon runner I was, we owned a gym, and we owned a gym. And people came to me for what to eat, what to eat. And you know I was like protein protein protein. like you got (inaudible). And now I’m just like I was feeding those people a whole bunch of inflammation. And I was, I really was and it just makes me cringe inside and like I am, So it’s life too is about being able to say I was wrong.

Clint: Yeah. And huge hat’s off to you in this moment because you know that being a personal trainer, there needs to be a sense of self-confidence. And may I dare say a little bit of ego involved because there is a physicality that you need to uphold to look good. And with that comes a sense of pride about how you look and so forth. And so for you to be able to you know it speaks volumes right now that you’re able to say look that was a mistake, and it was an innocent mistake, and I’m only always trying to help people at that time that’s how I believed to help them best. And you know we all make mistakes, I’ve got things that I regret in my upbringing as well about what I eat, and the way I treated animals on farms, who we saw as pests and things and so we just move on. We have to say well now I know more and I act differently.

Ricci: Better.

Clint: Yeah. All right now you and I could chat all day, and I hope our runs enjoying this conversation. But what I’d like to switch across to now more, is some more actionable tips. So let’s now move on to some things that you found really really helpful. And I know we’re going to talk about some supplementation. So take us away in that area.

Ricci: OK…about my supplementation stuff? OK. What I found very very useful is I actually found some good quality supplements here in the US but it involves, what they involve is digestive enzymes. So, proteases, bromelain, serrapeptase’s. There is a high dose of tumeric involved. I Do, do some plant based omega and probiotics. And so those are the things that kind of just kind of calmed my inflammation. And once I stopped you know the parasite cleansing and all that and was able to rebuild with these, they were huge and getting that back in balance for me again. So they they did include and I did have digestive enzymes and prebiotic fiber.

Clint: Right. OK. this is all good. All of all of this is stuff that is part of my standard guidelines.

Ricci: I Know that’s where I got it from. I knew what to look for. I knew the words to look for, I knew the formula. And the serrapeptase. like I knew I knew the words to look for from and you know I like it you said was find any probiotic just take it, just switch them up, and just whatever. But I did. I lucked out and I found a really good one that has helped me, and but it does include the digestive enzymes as well as, as well as, the probiotics. So and then I have another one prebiotics, and they have the one I take for inflammation has the tumeric, serrapeptase and bromelain. and so that I just love that one. I don’t know. like I just keep taking a ton of it. I don’t want to back track. And you know just nutritional tips and ways of living that I could give.

Clint: Before you go there. Can I just can I just stop you. I’m going to get a lot of questions. People love to buy the same brands as our guests. Do you recall what the brand is that you take for all your three-way mix of your probiotic.

Ricci: I don’t know like if I should. How about they can message me and I could do that privately. I’m on Facebook, Ricci Martinsen Sorensen. I am so open to helping, anyway I can. I’m in school right now for integrated nutrition this is what I want to do is like you it just get the word out. The things that work with the food and the few little supplements to help out. And I don’t mind, I don’t mind messaging people. I don’t mind sending the information.

Clint: So I think that’s good. And let me let me add another sort of comment to that which is, I actually think that it can be counterproductive to get obsessed about which brands you know what you didn’t what you did is what I suggest. You find probiotics that are on special at the store. You take multiple different brands you take multiple different combinations of cultures. Why? Because diversity is just as important as quantity. So we want to take tons of them, and we want lots of diversity and that’s exactly what you’ve done and then you’ve found something that works for your body with the particular cultural deficiencies of your body. So to just copy what you do. You know is not necessarily the smartest thing to do.

Clint: And so I just ask because people always ask me and I feel.

Ricci: I was just like that, and I was like I want to know exactly like where you do. I just feel like, I just feel like that, I just you know I don’t mind totally standing over everything. I felt that the like like you said it’s just finding quality and getting them in there.

Clint: Yes, I get what you mean, That’s right.

Clint: Let’s talk about bromelain now, I used to take that supplement in ridiculous amounts just before we started recording. We only spoke for a few moments but one of the things you mentioned to me was that you did take high dose. Now this is not something that we recommend. This is not you know guidelines. This was our personal decision and our own approach. What did you do?

Ricci: Well the one of supplement I take and includes it with the tumeric. So isn’t just a high dosage of just bromelain, it’s broken up. so I do do and I don’t do them before meals or anything like that. Just do like, a few in the morning, few at night just to keep that inflammation knocked down. I do it more for inflammation than digestion.

Clint: Okay.

Ricci: Then you know that the enzymes I take with my probiotic and stuff there in my probiotic kind of help without that digestive processes.

Clint: Okay. So you kind of covered the spectrum of daylight hours, and even into the night and you just keep taking some probiotics, or bromelain, or whatever combination some with tumeric as well.

Ricci: I do that in the morning and stuff at night. So is it so hard for me to remember stuff in the middle of the day. I do, I don’t know how you feel about this. I don’t want to but you do sound like a fresh fermented sauerkraut with (inaudible) with digestion. ma’am. some plant based are really in to you know just doing the raw food and then some will add in the fermented foods a little bit here and there.

Clint: All I’m into is what works. And sauerkraut works so it’s in. If eating old dried up pine cones that have been washed up onto the shore worked, I’d say eat dried up washed not pine cones. So in the same way I’m not prejudice about any other approach. If it works we’re good to go. But if there’s scientific evidence that it’s counterproductive let’s get rid of it. Now OK. Well that’s cool. So we’ve gone over that now. You’re about to say something else when I interrupted you to follow up from your supplementation stuff and you started by saying and what else really helped and I hope you haven’t lost that thought.

Ricci: Well no. I was just going to say as far as nutrition and transition into plant based eating. It is really all about finding ways for you to especially if you work to make your life easier. And so I am a huge advocate of smoothies. I absolutely like, think everybody in the world needs to have smoothies every day, and they need to have tons of greens, and they need to have these things in them. Because that is a way that it already takes that first step of breaking that down and that settled down, and it’s ready for your poor beat up all gut to start absorbing the nutrients. So I love to do that once a day.

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Ricci: Another thing that I really love and found very effective for me is I really try to eat my greens I’m talking like eight to twelve cups of greens a day. I mean I eat some salad around these parts. So I will cut up, Like my husband, the family bowl that you take like family parties, that’s my bowl I eat my salad in for dinner. But I will take all different sorts of greens like kale, and collards, and Romaine’s, and red wheat, whatever’s your thing. And one time a week, I will chop and wash tons of it and I will spin it and keep it in little Tupperware’s in my fridge. that way I can literally add an Apple and avocado or whatever to it very easily. And it’s there and it’s not like oh I gotta cut all this up. And I have to rinse it all. And I’m tired. I have been working all day. I’m just going to grab what’s convenient. So just little things like that I’ll have my oil free meat, you know dressings in there in the. Sorry my son he was so good for so long. I have him in my fridge ready. I have onions. always chopped. Just things like that. Like people say it was just too much preparation. Right? It’s just too much preparation for plant based eating. So you know that really takes a huge chunk out of your time

Clint: Yeah. That’s excellent. That’s excellent. I buy the prewashed mix leafy greens, but you can’t really control what you’re actually getting. And so you’ve taken that to a whole new level and bought what you want, and then wash them all the way that you know say a factory would do it otherwise and you’ve done it at home yourself, split them all into these beautiful combinations put them into containers, and away you go and as you said you can just add stuff to it you’ve got a meal the salad is the base of the meal.

Ricci: Yeah. And then you can grab a hunk of that and stick it in your smoothie. You don’t even have to have…

Clint: And then you know wash and stuff it straight in the smoothie. Yeah this is great. This is fantastic. Well having those huge bowls of salads, a day. I mean there’s no wonder that you’ve done so well, because you know it’s almost it’s very challenging not to improve if you eat insane amounts of salad and I did to eat insane amounts like laughable quantities per day.

Ricci: It’s the same, it’s a joke. I am the joke, the laughing joke. I bring my own food to all our family gatherings and that’s another thing I feel like people feel like oh, what about Thanksgiving? guess what. I have a wonderful Thanksgiving, but I have to bring on my food but it’s totally worth it to me. And I just bring my bowls of goodies and I go you know. And I feel like you can take it as I’ll be left out of everything. Or you can just bring your stuff and not be left out of everything.

Clint: Yes, exactly.

Ricci: I bring my stuff in the restaurants. I have no shame in my game. I like about what I don’t want to have it all their offering is stuff I can’t have, but I still want to go with my family. It comes on with me and now they’re used to seeing me with my pulling stuff out of my purse stuff like that. It’s okay.

Clint: Yeah. Well that’s right. And who gives a ****, if your, You know I don’t know if we quite covered it in detail but can you just give us an example of how much you were suffering just to wrap up. Before we go I’m in a bad state for any sceptics. I mean how bad were you?

Ricci: I will just say in March, just in March, it has not been long though this is this year. I had both my knees so big, they were like about a softball size, I’m a thin person. And when I will go get them drained, I would get, they would pull three to four ounces of fluid off. That’s about the size of a small baby bottle. Ok Like the small baby bottle. And that’s out of my tiny tiny knee. That’s the only one I can drain. The rest of them I just had to deal with. right? I just had to wait till it processed that I had my shoulder, elbows, wrists, fingers, toes, all this march, all at the same time. I would have to have my husband take my shirt off because I couldn’t lift my arm up. Severe pain, severe pain, and what I like. I’m so passionate about this just as you are. Because food is medicine, and it is profound to me the healing ability of our body. And I always like to compare the immune system to like a mechanic, like the best car mechanic that ever was. It knows how to fix everything it knows what to do, but it cannot do anything without the right tools. and it’s like if you give it just some quality tools. Then you know it can do everything and it will, it gives us a chance. Our bodies will heal anything. And I think that that’s what people realize is a diagnosis isn’t forever. It is not, it isn’t. There is a set of symptoms that are going on your body is talking to you and saying help. Like what are you doing to me. And then once we like take a step back, and give it the tools it needs, and it can go okay now we can make this better. I’m going to make this better.

Ricci: You have to give it time and you took that many years to get this way. And take little time to get back. And I just love that analogy because honestly like you it wants to but can’t. It needs tools, and the tools are our greens, and our you know Probiotics, and than the things that we need to do to build it up again to where it can sustain this anti-inflammatory way of life.

Clint: Yeah well said. I really like that. That’s a great great description. So you’re moving into this a little more formally as we wrap up this conversation. You are now studying to offer services to people who are also in need. Just wrap that up for us before we close off.

Ricci: I am in, I am doing a integrative nutrition health coaching. I’ll be able to be taking clients in March. I am just basically going to help guide people to what has helped us. And I got to say my passion is auto immune diseases, because I believe every root of every auto immune disease, rheumatoid arthritis, or others. Because now I have been working with my cousin with MS, and he is seeing amazing recovery as well with eating fruits and vegetables and helping his gut. And it just, that is my passion is to reach out to people like us to show them hey, look how bad I was and Look at now and let’s get you there because that’s very possible. And so my websites almost up, I’m almost ready. All my business stuff is in and so I’m ready to take this on and hopefully we’ll be able to chat more maybe. You can be my guest and we can just spread this because the ripple effect of this is huge.

Clint: Absolutely OK. Great! Well once your website goes live in a week or month or whatever it might be send me through the details and I will add the details your contact details to the bottom of the transcription of this conversation. So if people are listening there’s conversation in the future rather than when it’s released then they’ll be able to go to that site and go to that page and be able to contact you from there.

Clint: So thank you very much. This has been a great amount of fun, and times going quickly. So Ricci you’ve done out wonderfully well. You’ve made your family proud and done yourself proud and you’ve inspired our audience. Thank you so much.

Ricci: Thank you for having me.


green smoothies, Paddison Program, Plant-based, prebiotics, Rheumatoid Arthritis

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