September 22

Ruben turns his life around with the Paddison Program for RA

We discuss how:
– Rubén has suffered pain from RA for about one year and wasn’t able to even walk
– He was under Methotrexate and had lots of cortisone, ibuprofen, diclofenac
– He found Clint’s TED Talk and was inspired by it to begin the Paddison Program
– In one month he was able to return to his normal life
– He’s now completely drug-free
– His wife is now expecting their first child and they are thrilled!
– Now Rubén is able to walk, run, squat his own body weight on his shoulders
– He uses the Paddison Program Reset as needed, making him 100% confident that he can maintain low pain levels on demand
– Determination led him to constant little improvements which made the difference in the end
– Grab your copy of the Paddison Program Guide for Rheumatologists


Clint: Here we go again another fabulous exciting episode with another very interesting and highly achieving guest on our show.

Clint: It’s Rubén who’s originally from Spain now living in London and he’s got a fabulous story to share with us about his improvements with his rheumatoid arthritis on the Paddison Program. Good day Rubén!

Ruben: Hello. How are you.

Clint: I’m really excited. This is going to be fun. What we’ve done is you know you’ve withheld all of the juicy details from me so that we can learn them all or I can learn them all and that audience can learn them on this podcast. Now you have been an active member of our support forum and in there you kind of treated it like the way that I go shopping to the supermarket. You would just pop in ask a question and then you would disappear again. So we didn’t learn a lot about you but you seem to have got a lot out of that because you’ve told me in just a single sentence that you’ve made incredible improvements on our program. So just give us a snapshot.

Ruben: Well that, like this. I mean I’ve been suffering RA for a well, let’s say one year and two months already. For the first year it was like a disaster. I mean truly it was like a nightmare for me. I like a lot to the way I live and so on. And for me it was like come on. I had both knees like yours, I mean like a water melon feel what he had to say. Yeah. And I was I wasn’t able even to bend my knees and I wasn’t able to even to walk. You know what I mean.

Ruben: So I was visiting my rheumatologist for one year, having methotrexate, having not prednisone but sort of cortisone on both knees like seven times. I mean it was a lot, yeah lots of ibuprofen, diclofenac, lots of (inaudible). You know what I mean.

Ruben: I was researching since the very very first day cause I had the idea, the feeling that it just has to come from another thing you know because I was being told by the doctor that they don’t know RA, where it comes from. It comes from genetics, it comes from I don’t know. I had the feeling I had the idea and the hope that RA comes from another. And I think So from the very first day I was researching on nitrite, a lot of diet, paleo diet which you know is like half of the progress. But still I was bad at that moment. And finally I’m run into a TED talk from you. I remember that day like, well the first day of my improvement, my healing and I decided to go to forth, Clint I mean the way you talk, the way you’re explaining everything is a very inspirational thing for all the RA community. Yeah.

Ruben: Well I started your program and they had to say, I mean it was like one month. And in one month I was again lifting weights and all that. I mean I was squatting,I was biking, I’m jumping, I can run.I mean everything I want.

Clint: Yeah no, that’s superb.

Clint: So now what medications adjustment were you able to make after you began. Obviously your energy level has improved a lot. And you said after one month you’re already biking and lifting weights. What else has improved.

Ruben: Well I mean I’m drug-free. I mean yeah.

Clint: So you’re off the methotrexate now.

Ruben: Exactly. I mean I’ve been for diclofenac, ibuprofens and so on for one year because I couldn’t sleep. Then you know what I mean. You know what I’m talking about I mean I was saying I wasn’t able to sleep for one hour in a row every night. I mean it was a nightmare.

Clint: Because of the pain?

Ruben: Well you know both of my knees, they were like potatoes, melons. And it was swelling like that. And I have methotrexate, I took it for let’s say five months. I didn’t feel the difference. I mean I was in the same bad situation, the same bad shape I used to be before taking the Methotrexate.

Clint: But so you’ve got no relief at all from that drug.

Ruben: Not at all.

Ruben: Interesting. Interesting. OK.

Ruben: I have to say as well that I didn’t feel any side effects.

Ruben: Exactly.

Clint: OK. So it felt like you weren’t even taking it.

Ruben: Exactly. Exactly.

Ruben: So once for all I met again my Rheumatologist. I have to say that this doctor is a woman. She’s a very nice woman, very nice doctor.

At the end of the day she didn’t help me because she just try to I don’t know, methotrexate, cortisone shots, so they just relieve me in a very short moment. Yeah, but they didn’t help.

Clint: Well they haven’t got the tools to help. I mean all they have is symptomatic relief. And so like it’s like if the house is on fire, they’ve got some ways of making the flames lower at the windows and underneath some of your furniture. But if the fire is coming from a gas leak in the oven they don’t go anywhere near the oven. They don’t address the gas leak. They just keep addressing the fire that’s on the furniture and coming out the windows. But that gas leaks are going to continue forever whilst there’s still gas coming. And in the case of rheumatoid when your body is providing that gas via bacteria ending your bloodstream and via the foods that you’re eating, then this thing’s going to go on for ever. And that’s why in most cases in conventional treatment people never get off the drugs and they never ever feel like they ever get any control over their condition.

Ruben: Exactly, exactly. And another thing I have to work is that well, my wife and I, we”re trying by then to have a baby. I was sure that methotrexate wasn’t going to help. It didn’t cause I had a sperm test and my sperms were quite low. And worst all that, methotrexate was the main reason for that. Yes. So yeah we visit another doctor, a specialist in conceiving a baby and so on. And they told us that “with your swelling, with your inflammation, you’re not going to be able to conceive ever coz the body is like more focused on that inflammation that you can’t conceive a baby. So I met my doctor again and I told her look, methotrexate not working so I want to get off this drug. So she has her doubts but finally she agreed and she told me to sign to start testing me in order to work with the biological.

Ruben: So yeah what I did is I discontinued my methotrexate and I was like well drug free but with a lot of pain. Yeah. Well luckily,I saw your your TED talk, OK and they said to me OK go for it because this guy, it seemed like he knows what he’s talking about. So yes, that’s exactly the day, I’ve made my juice with my celery and cucumber and I went for it. Well I didn’t go for that two days in a row, that cleanse cause I’m quite slim. I went directly to the baseline. And I have to say I mean it was symptomatic like these. I mean I work like two months. Yes. Taking quinoa, basmati rice, buckwheat, sweet potato and tons of green leaves and so on like you adviced. And it took me like two weeks. And in two weeks I was all ready trying even to run a little bit.

Clint: Wow.So those knees that you had that were swollen up so much. How did they respond when you made these changes. What happened?

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Ruben: Yeah. Well and I have to say as well that last time I visit the doctor, OK, I had an injection of cortisone in my worst knee as you have fall five times. This is something maybe can help in some situation like swollen as my knee used to be. So I had that injection so in that my inflammation went down. The other knee was swollen but not so much as the other one in that very moment because both of the knees were like in a very bad shape for one year. And well I notice that day by day, my inflammation in the knee which weren’t shot was getting down. And yeah I mean every single day I was able to move a little bit, to bend farther my knees, you know. So it was like enough feeling like okay this is working! So go for it. I mean keeping day by day the diet, I stick to the baseline diet. I was feeling that come on this is working. You have to go for it. Don’t stop now. This is going to lead you in your improvement you know. So that’s what I did. I mean come on every single day you feel stronger.

Ruben: Yeah. So one day I said to me Okay let’s try now with some squats. Yes to the box. You know what I mean. I put the bench like this. So.

Clint: So under your under your bum. So you would squat just down to like a shallow squat.

Ruben: Exactly, Day by day, just have one percent more every single day and you stay and now come on, I’m able I have to say squat 80 kilos with no books

Clint: Wow, that would be like your body weight. Right. You’re squatting in your own body weight on your shoulders.

Ruben: Exactly. Wow.

Ruben: Wow that’s amazing. So OK so just to summarize where we’re up to so far with your story so you’re currently not taking any medication and you’re able to squat your own body weight using the same knees that previously would keep you up and you have to wake up every hour due to the pain even when you’re on methotrexate. And two different painkillers.

Ruben: Exactly. And you know what? Now my wife is pregnant. Yeah. Can you imagine? I mean.

Clint: Oh, she was sitting right next to you the whole time.

Ruben: Yeah. And you can imagine, this is something cause the swelling went down and it disappear. Everything’s good now.

Clint: Now, how does that make you feel now that you’ve got a family you’re going to be starting a family.

Ruben: Exactly. And thanks to you. Come on. Amazing! What can I say?

Clint: Yes. And your wife she’s so beautiful as well. You were one of the luckiest men in the world.

Ruben: I am, I am indeed!

Clint: So I mean are we at a safe level. Are you past three? Is your wife past three months?

Ruben: Yes. Yes.

Clint: Yes. That’s right. You shared it with your friends and family. How did they react?

Ruben: They cannot believe it. I mean cause some month ago I was in a very bad fate. You know what I mean. I wasn’t able to even to walk even to… And now I can walk and a baby is coming!

Clint: How crazy 12 months. That’s a big turnaround in 12 months isn’t it.

Ruben: It is. Yeah.

Clint: Yeah. And my doctor told me that you know I’d have to wait about two or three months after coming off the methotrexate before starting for a baby. We ended up waiting a lot longer because even after I came off the methotrexate I didn’t feel physically strong enough to feel like I was for want of a better word masculine enough to want to try and start for a baby. You know it’s a weird sort of just a biological sense that I had, that I just wanted to feel stronger and better before I started. But you know I certainly wasn’t squatting 80 kilograms or anything like that. So you know that’s great. So you guys have you cleared that danger period because that was a long time ago now that you got what nearly a year since you’ve been off that. And you know that’s just that’s just fantastic. That’s the best news ever.

Ruben: It is. It is. And now I’m excited cause on Wednesday I’m visiting again my doctor. So I want to tell her about you, about your program. I think she’s going to listen to me coz she’s a very nice woman and I think she will, but I want to tell her – Listen, you want to help a lot of people. Yeah. Yes. Right. Bring Paddison Program and go there and go for it.

Clint: Go ahead and tell her the same thing. What I’m about to say applies to anyone listening or watching our video. If your rheumatologist wants to speak with me then I will personally have a conversation with them on Skype or phone and they can contact me and I will pick up the phone and I will spend as long as they want over the phone talking about this. I know that not many rheumatologist will probably accept that invitation because they would consider that to be insulting to their own intelligence perhaps or maybe they’re shut down to ideas that aren’t presented to them at the conferences that they pay a lot of money to attend every year or the scientific papers that they read maybe aren’t addressing this as the primary path forward. However what I want you to do is to pass on that invitation and anyone please pass the invitation. I can be contacted. My team pick up my emails that So whenever there’s something that needs my attention it comes to me and I will happily follow up on that in the interim what we can do is we can direct them to my TED talk which was the talk that you mentioned in your earlier and also I have the Guide for Rheumatologists and I’ll put the download link on the show notes of this episode so anyone who’s listening to this can jump onto our website, grab the guide for rheumatologist and it includes all of the scientific studies that show the link between not just the gut and how it interacts with the immune system and gut bacteria and how they influence the decisions that our gut lining has as to what should be passed through the gut wall and what should be withheld into the intestine but also all the studies that have been done with people following a diet that’s somewhat similar to what I recommend. Low fat plant based diet and how the tremendous improvements that they have made. So when people say to me why don’t you go ahead and do a clinical trial. Well yes we have that in the pipelines but it’s a lot of money to do and it’s very hard to organize and requires a collaboration that requires me to hire staff to become research assistants and all of this work that needs to be done. And in the interim, I can present a very very comprehensive compilation in a document called The Guide for Rheumatologist that people can read and say well there you go look there’s the there’s overwhelming evidence here. Do we really need Clint to run this clinical trial. And yes I will do it because I think that that loop needs to be closed. But in the meantime we’re kind of like 90 percent there with this document that I already have put together. So you know you can download that document from inside our support forum and those people who aren’t yet members, I’ll put that up on the show notes of this episode so we can definitely do that and I’d love to hear what she says. Don’t expect if her response is a little underwhelming.

Clint: You know a little bit less than you you probably want her to like and say hang on let’s get everyone from the waiting room in. I need everyone to listen to this.

Ruben: It would be like this, OK. I mean that will be very helpful, very helpful for lot of people who are suffering now, this disease, you know. And maybe the people, they are not able even to research, I don’t know. I’ve been very lucky coz I am from Spain, I live in UK. I almost tried to do a research in Spanish you know because my main language but maybe that was a mistake coz in Spanish we cannot find this kind of evidence and so on. So I was very lucky to do research in English and want to also to focus on this in one or two years.

And maybe there are people, there maybe was not lucky, maybe if they run into your TED talk, they can start to plan and they can improve.

Clint: It’s an interesting point because you know the nature of us speaking in English now excludes a very large amount of the world’s population. And these aren’t being transcribed into different languages. However what I noticed with Dr. Gregor from is after he published his book “How Not To Die” He then had the physical book translated into something like 40 or 50 different languages. And through doing that he was able to reach an enormous market. And so I’m going to be taking a lead from his approach which all of this content you know it’s just it’s just too much to be transcribing. There are some I believe some kind of tech tools that can be used to transcribe sorry not transcribe, translate languages for people but when the book is complete which I’m now working on daily, when the book is complete and published on Amazon then we have a platform from which that can be translated into multiple languages. And I think that’s the best way forward. Otherwise it’s too much content. So tell us now with regards to you know I like to use the words completely and confidently controlled. So how is your condition now in terms of your confidence over it. And what do you do if you have some days where you think well maybe I made a mistake yesterday with something that I ate or something. What is your little system to keep yourself on track.

Ruben: Reset, I mean I’m very close to stick to the baseline. I just add a little some foods as oats and some oats for breakfast and some squash.

Clint: OK, you say you are having oats for breakfast?

Ruben: Yes.

Clint: OK, that’s very exciting because there’s a different nutritional profile between the oats and the rice and buckwheat and quinoa. And so you’re getting a nice sort of coverage there and I’m going to be doing a podcast soon with a guest Richard Matthews who’s been on podcast several times before. And the whole podcast is just going to be about eating oats because the benefits of eating oats are phenomenal and the answer to the conundrum is that when we have RA we begin to try and intervene with our diet. Oats are one of the things that we have to avoid. They seem to be problematic like wheat and barley and in some other cereal grains. However because they are inherently gluten free and they only become gluten containing when their crops are contaminated by neighbouring crops like wheat and barley and so forth because those crops can move through winds and so forth or processing machines end up getting into the same cereal then oats are the first reintroduction sort of cereal that’s in our program and in fact it’s reasonably well tolerated by a lot of people after they’ve spent some time on the more basic diet that you’ve been following. So where I’m going with this is that I feel extremely confident about your ability to maintain your position through a number of factors. One is your determination which is probably in 11 out of 10 right. Your determination is like immense. OK. And having the attitude and determination is essential and you’ve got that. You’ve got the support obviously from a loving wife. And so having support is tremendous. You have our support in the support community and you’ve had that for several months. The support of your wife and obviously you know your family and friends are delighted with your outcome so you’re very unlikely to go and want to mess that up. Right so you’ve got what’s called positive pressure around you. This positive pressure means that everyone wants to keep you well and you’re going to you know stick with that. Right. It’s peer pressure. And also you’ve got the techniques of being able to reset back to baseline whenever you need to. You’ve got all that information available to you. And you’ve got me whenever you need that. And but also you’ve got the reintroduction of oats is so important because it just does so much for the protection of your gut wall through the mucosal creation and also because it just creates so much healthy gut bacteria. They just thrive on that particular food source. And so you know when I see people graduate into eating being able to eat oats off the baseline and oats particularly, I just feel so so reassured. You know it’s like wow ok. I know what level your gut is at and you have just applied another security system to your house. You’ve just put on another fire alarm. In fact it’s like you’ve just put another screw over the cap that was sealing off the gas. Now you’ve just put another cap over it.

Ruben: Right. Yeah. And regarding your last question what I feel is 100 percent confidence. I mean I feel confident because I have my weapon, you know what I mean. I mean any day I wake up and I feel my foot or my knee a little bit itchy, i just know that I have to reset. I have to reset and going to the basics which is you know a buckwheat and a basmati rice for me and the green leaves and everything is going to be back on track.

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Clint: It was the same for me too. Originally my reset was just the reset that I explain for the beginners when they begin the process but then it was able to also expand out and I eventually my reset, I used to be actually just back to the rice because you don’t have to reset as far backwards in the process. The further forward you get and you might find that at some point in fact my memory is now reminding me that my reset after a while used to actually be curried potatoes on basmati rice with curry powder mixed so instead of it being like buckwheat and quinoa with the with tons of green leaves and the seaweed and the miso paste it then became our rice with the miso paste or what we called the mega miso meal and lots of greens and then it evolved and my reset became potatoes and rice which was delicious and so a reset was actually just an awesome meal, you know what I mean?.

Ruben: Yeah man. Yeah. Same for me. For me determination I know is working and food tastes good. So come on…

Clint: One argument that the doctors often make is that the compliance of people just won’t be there if they have to make dietary changes. And that’s an argument that I hear a lot. It’s kind of the last resort when they think OK. All right. Well this seems to be working and maybe even there is some evidence here even though it’s kind of phenomenal. I mean you know the document. Why do people look at that document something like I’m going to take a guess and say there’s over 100 scientific references in there the guide for rheumatologists. And there’s just an estimate of my memory but the last resort they have. Well maybe people won’t do it because you know who would want to have to eat lots of rice. And who wants to go without their shrimp and oysters. Right. But the food’s amazing isn’t it. The food tastes great.

Ruben: Exactly. And people the people who want to improve and who wants to be healed are the people who want to take that food you know. So come on. Go for it.

Clint: Have you got any tips for people. Let’s go with Ruben’s “most important things you need to know if you want to improve your rheumatoid arthritis”, what would be some things that you would definitely say to a stranger if they just told you they had rheumatoid.

Ruben: Well I mean now I look backwards and I completely understand which kind foods make me worse and worse. And they were dairy products.

Ruben: Yeah. Exactly. And eggs. Eggs, I don’t know why coz every single time I used to eat eggs my knees were like swelling.

Clint: Hey can I ask this? Were you taking a lot of raw eggs or raw egg whites because of your gym training. Because I know that they’re considered a desired protein source by people who go to the gym who are just in that mindset.

Ruben: Well I have to say that for years I used to have egg whites. OK, but when I felt it was worse is when I was taking the whole leg. OK. Maybe most of the fats are in the white.

Ruben: Yeah. I mean my advice maybe when you are in a very very bad state, don’t try to do any work. I mean yeah because of my love of sports and so on, even with my swollen knees, I tried and it was like a disaster you know. Every single day I started your program and I saw an improvement. But when I say to me Okay let’s go for it. And every single day now we have to do sdd a little brick on the wall.

Clint: Yeah. OK. Let me ah..tell me if this sounds correct based on what you are suggesting or observed is that when your knees were really swollen it is really hard to move them. You felt that it was not a benefit to really try and work them hard but after you were able to reduce a lot of that swelling you saw an opportunity to then go and exercise and build them back up again whilst that swelling was going down.

Ruben: Exactly. Yeah. Sorry for my English.

Clint: No, not at all. I just because I that was my experience too. So my experience was that when the swelling went right down in my knee I saw it as a wonderful opportunity to then go and build the knee back up again. And in fact it wasn’t apparent to me until the swelling went away just how weak and how pathetic my knee had become. It really really became very very incapable of doing simple tasks. And when the swelling was there it kind of acted as a padding like as a protective padding. But when the when the swelling went away I felt such weakness in the knee and I had a new set of problems and that was how do I rebuild this knee that’s now grinding and clicking and and feeling very unstable. And so that’s when I did what I used so I couldn’t begin with any weight lifting activity for me the first rehabilitation was just sitting on a stationary bike and using the stationary bike and that was enabling me to both get some movement through the knee because the knee, the joints don’t get any blood flow what they need is the compression of the sinovial fluids to deliver nutrients into the knee. And so we got a.. we must move our joints but then also the pushing motion enable me to start to slowly rebuild some of the connective tissue to the knee. And then with time I then was also able to do some resistance work on my knee and I do lunges I sometimes do some squats but I just be careful with it. You know I like it but often with my two kids I go into the gym and I’ve only sometimes got 20, 25 minutes and I do the things that I like and the things that you know I’m in a routine of doing and often legs which take a little longer at the gym I kind of I kind of try and avoid them.

Clint: So yes but if I needed to do them, absolutely. And they are all that I used to do in the past because that’s where one of the biggest problems was. So I enjoy not having to work them out you know.

Ruben: I started the same with a stationary bike you know or maybe 10 minutes the first day the second day was 20, 30 and it was like okay come on I’m feeling stronger now. Let’s try to do some squats, just half squats. just put some weight on it some more weight and now I feel strong because for one year not even being able to bend my knee my legs were like like this. I am not big guy but they were like this but now I am getting more muscle.

Clint: Yeah exactly. Well isn’t it nice to know that you can return to your same body weight and body strength without any of the toxins and that you’re having a very very clean lifestyle both in terms of your own health but also having a kind living where no one dies because of you wanting to eat whatever you want. And you have net zero or very almost zero impact on the environment by not eating food sources that cause a lot of environmental problems by having to create them.

Ruben: I have to say that I could be not the last one but one of the last ones people in the world who go for a pagan diet you know I’m now here I am.

Clint: You and me both, you and me both!

Clint: When I gave my talk a couple of weeks ago at veggie fest in Chicago I had the audience laughing so hard because I said look you know like you said I was like the last person ever to want to give up meat. I said if there’s people here who are still eating meat because it’s Veggie Fest so they come and they they’re not maybe vegetarians yet or they’re thinking about it or whatever. And I said listen guys, I thought because I’ve always been skinny that I would actually disappear if I stopped eating meat. Like I say do you think that I’m slim I said I thought I was going to be like a shadow. I’d hide behind polls. You know what I mean. So anyway though everyone could relate to that sort of fear. But what we realize is like I’m the exact same weight that I am now as what I was before I got sick and I haven’t eaten any meat and dairy products. It’s got to be like eight years of seven or eight years or something. So it’s, it really is a fallacy. And I, you know I don’t even kind of feel the need to try and hold up my weight with massive meals and stuff. As long as you eat three meals a day and you’re aware of takes a few months and you get into a routine you’re like OK, alright I see that I just need to maybe have an extra little scoop of oatmeal in the morning and that makes a difference between sort of you know sliding a little on the weight or actually being able to gain a little weight at the gym. And the tiny tweaks you know they’re just tiny tweaks but we work them out.

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Ruben: Exactly, same for me. And I am now in a 3000 calories diet maybe so enough I mean maybe I will be having some calories and so on when I feel better I will be regaining weight and you will be in the same situation as I used to be.

Clint: Yeah. Like I have no doubt. I mean what I would expect that in another couple of months you weigh exactly what you used to weigh. And I just spoke to Chef AJ the other day on a podcast we haven’t released it yet coming out soon and she said that the world’s strongest man is vegan and so I’m going to try and get him on the air and that would be a fun chat. I don’t know. I forgot his name but. But I mean it even surprises me and it shouldn’t but it still does. But I see no, I see no inferiority in terms of masculinity or physical strength whatsoever. You know here we have two men talking about being on a plant based diet. And I think it’s cool man. I think like plant based is it. That’s the way to go. And having people like yourself be such you know ambassadors and you look so healthy and you’re such a sort of, you’ve got such a story to tell. I mean it’s magnetic. You know people think wow, this I want to learn more you know.

Ruben: Thank you for you. I mean we have to thank you Clint for all the work you have been doing and you know more and more people will feel the same.

Clint: It would be great wouldn’t it?

Ruben: Yeah.

Clint: Yeah. Well that’s it. So let’s, you know keep doing things like this and keep talking positively about what’s possible. And I try not to sort of you know there’s lots of ways of pointing out how the wrong ways of doing things. And there is a lot of other people who claim to have ways forward for autoimmune conditions that I think are absurd and they have huge followings, our following you know what I do is much smaller than some of the more popular versions of trying to address autoimmune conditions that involve meat and other things that people love to eat. They’re addicted to them or they believe that they’re necessary. And yet you know I don’t do podcast where I slam everything that’s wrong with these other approaches because that’s not how I want to operate. I just want to operate by saying No listen, how many people do we need to come on this show. How many times like I’ve stopped putting testimonials on our website because it just gets stupid like people don’t want to scroll all day do you know what I mean. And I just like to keep putting the information out there with real wonderful people like yourself and eventually just through sheer overwhelming sort of amount of content and evidence and so forth people are going to say you know what maybe this message that I’ve been hearing from this other angle isn’t correct and maybe I need to check out this other thing and I thank you for coming on and sharing your story because you were a part of this puzzle before everyone you know.

Ruben: I mean it feels great to feel great. You know, so that’s it. I mean just keep going and now we we know the path and we have to go through this exact revelation you know. So thank you Clint and hopefully more and more people will feel the same feeling.

Clint: Yeah absolutely. Well thank you. Is there any final thing you’d like to mention to anyone any kind of wrap up. Would you like to add? Have we forgotten anything?

Ruben: Well basically my advice to the people who wants to go to your plan. OK? I would say to them that if you go for it 100% because maybe one single thing makes you not improve. You know what I mean. So if you go, go 100 percent for sure.

Clint: It’s very true. It’s like I say the road through the mountain the path through the mountain is very narrow. And if we put one foot left or right we can fall off. It’s very narrow. So yes. Good. Good reminder for us. Thank you. Alright. Well when are you due? When is your baby due?

Ruben: It’s in April

Clint: Alright. Well we’re a few months off yet. So I look forward to hearing all about the little one. And congratulations once again! And thank you for sharing your story. And I look forward to chat with you more online.

Ruben: Well. Thank you so much!


cortisone, ibuprofen, Methotrexate, Rheumatoid Arthritis

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