We discuss how:
– Ted has been diagnosed with RA in 2004 after an episode of acute knee pain
– She immediately started methotrexate and prednisone at a very high dosage
– The pain started also in the ankle, and several exams didn’t shed light on the situation
– Then she started Enbrel and it was a big relief compared to the previous levels of pain
– But with the prolonged use came some infections as a side effect, and Ted started taking antibiotics
– After stopping Enbrel for some time, it did stop working and she switched to other biologics, which gave other nasty side effects
– She then found the Paddison Program and after 24 hours the pain was gone and she was able to walk freely
– She has made radical changes in her diet and the results are great
Clint: Today I have another guest from the Netherlands and her name is Ted. Well It’s an abbreviation isn’t it for Bernadette and she’s in Masflecht. I don’t know if I pronounce that correctly. It’s difficult for us westerners to speak the Dutch language with all of the curling of the tongue but she’s going to talk today about her dramatic improvements over the last three years that she’s been part of Paddison Program. She’s followed the program and also been part of our support group so I’ve watched her progress and heard her updates on a regular basis but this is the first time that we’ve had a chance to meet face to face. And I’m excited to hear it as a summary and going to all the details of this rather than just getting the updates and answering questions so thank you so much for coming on this episode and sharing your story.
Ted: Well thank you know it’s an honor for me to speak to you live and I’m doing very well. I’m very energetic. I am very happy and I feel great. Yeah.
Clint: Awesome. Now walk us through how it began and some of the challenges that you faced starting out. First of all with your official diagnosis and how long ago that was and the first course of treatment.
Ted: Yeah well it started in 2004, 15 years ago and this was a very warm, hot, humid sunny day, summer day and we were sitting outside with friends and family and very cozy, everything perfect but I eat a lot of cherries. We have a bucket full of cherries and I like them and we went to bed. And after two or three hours I wake up with a terrible pain in my right knee and very swollen right knee. I couldn’t believe that that could happen in a few hours. It was very strange. And, and that didn’t go away anymore. I recognize it because I had it sometimes before the same but then after a few hours it disappears. When I was 18, when I was 35, so I thought well this will disappear as well, but it didn’t, it got worse and worse. I got very sick, tired, a lot of pain and very heavy pain 24 hours seven days a week. I went to the GP and she told me Oh you must have had a trauma, a little trauma on your knee (inaudible) now, its something different. I think it’s a rheuma and we call it here in Holland rheumatoid arthritis because it’s in our family and he said no, it isn’t and but I wanted to go to the hospital and he didn’t think it was necessary. But in the end he wrote a letter and I made an appointment but it took so many weeks before I could see a rheumatologist and I worked in the hospital at that moment so I went straight to the nurse from the rheumatologist I knew her, and then I could see she asked the rheumatologist to come and she said yes it’s very worse. You have rheumatoid arthritis. They did puncture and examine the fluids on my knee. It was a lot. I think 100ml that came out this lot. It looked like a very organic apple juice.
Clint: Yeah, kind of a bit of a yellow tinge. Yeah.
Ted: Yeah. And then she confirmed yes and my lab results were also positive and somewhat it was rheumatoid arthritis and I was in shock, I couldn’t believe really that I had this.
Clint: You would have been familiar with it. With the severity of this condition from your family members is that right?
Ted: Yes. And even then I was in shock that I couldn’t trust my own body anymore.
Ted: That was the biggest issue and then all this medication I couldn’t believe it was for me. I was really was in shock.
Clint: What did they suggest?
Ted: I had to start immediately with methotrexate and prednisone very high doses.
Clint: How high?
Ted: I think 40MG, I started, 40 and they injected also prednisone on my knee. And then I had a painkiller but that didn’t do anything and that was it. Yeah.
Clint: At that point was it mostly just in the knee?
Ted: At that point, it was only on the knee yeah.
Clint: Well that treatment seems excessive. Certainly at the very least effective for that kind of situation where you’ve just got basically one big swollen knee. I ended up with one big swollen knee. It was a situation where it was noncompliant where everything else that I was doing was working fabulously all be it over a long period of time. Took years but everything was responding but my left knee just would not respond and it was remaining swollen, stiff very painful and it turned out after many years of feeling that I was going to get there naturally. I had a steroid shot into the knee and that wholly clear that it was as though I had a closed loop of inflammation like that just it was like I wasn’t. Whatever was happening in the knee was isolated from the rest of the body. And so an injection cleared out that inflammation and it was very effective. So given that you also at that time just had the inflammation in the knee I imagine that after just even the steroid shot you were probably walking around reasonably well after that and then the oral dose of steroids and then the methotrexate all the stuff kicking in at the same time you probably felt good for a few months right?
Ted: Am I felt good. But…
Clint: I know this was 16 years ago so it’s hard to remember
Ted: Yeah, I needed a wheelchair because I wasn’t allowed to walk. I had to keep my knee in rest.
Ted: They told me… Yeah I don’t know, I don’t know
Clint: That’s crazy. That’s crazy. The opposite is true because you would have if the knee would have become even in that short period of time like a month or two before you saw the rheumatologist and got that the knee would have started to become weak and the connective tissue at the top where the quadriceps meets the top of the patella. That would have become a little bit again like weak and started to become brittle. You’ve got to use that when you’ve got an opportunity to use a joint. I mean that’s all it’s there for is to move and we have to use it when it’s when it’s free of inflammation.
Ted: You’re right because they soon I already have muscle loss in my leg, I could see it. Yeah and that’s very quick. But I was so in fear and so depressed because I followed exactly what they taught me and so and that went on. Months later. I’m not sure about the time but period later I also had these problems in my left ankle. So my knee was okay but my left ankle started giving problems yeah. Even when I had this medication right. Well that’s it was the same thing and the problems were the same.
Clint: Were you still taking prednisone?
Clint: So what I think has happened here and my views I believe are fairly unique and that not many people share this kind of extreme negative view about prednisone. But my my feeling is that if you’ve got mild symptoms let’s say your symptoms with rheumatoid arthritis are five out of 10 and then if you were to take oral or injectable like in the back side of prednisone for a period of several months whilst it keeps the inflammation level down from a five to maybe a 1 or even less than a one during the time you’re taking it, you’re basically counting down the days until suddenly your symptoms that it is suppressing are going to double or show up somewhere else. It is the worst drug for creating more rheumatoid arthritis symptoms and so my feeling on what you’ve described is that massive intervention big injection into the knee that would have been sufficient in my view to see how you got along and then rehab the knee immediately start exercising it. Do some squats get it moving. Walk every day right but instead, they’ve gone the jab in the knee then they’ve gone that prednisone and this is the worst the prednisone ever why prednisone when you’ve just had the knee injection and then the methotrexate on top of that. So you’ve basically just gone boom all these meds and the Prednisone has eaten on depleted the mucosal lining, nowhere for the bacteria to live, created leaky gut and or more leaky gut and you’re in a situation a few months later. So that’s what I think happened there and you know the medical community was there trying to treat you can also be held accountable for some of the things that these medications do as side effects because it’s terribly detrimental what they can do.
Ted: Yeah but at that time I didn’t know
Clint: I know. And Ted nor did I. And if my doctor had said take prednisone I definitely would have taken it. Yeah. And in fact I went, I went to him one time when methotrexate was maxed out at 25 mg and I’d been doing my research myself and I said I hear that you can get an injection a one off like injection of steroids into your backside or whatever and I’ll give you a few months relief. I said maybe that’s something that we could try and he said I don’t do that in my practice and I said kind of why not. I was just so shocked by that, the last thing I expected was that I don’t do that. His response I can’t quite remember unfortunately the exact response but it was along the lines of I don’t think that the long term benefits outweigh the negative impact of those interventions. And at that time I didn’t know what that meant but clearly, he had a more acute understanding of this steroid treatment than what a lot of other practitioners do. So you know it’s I to this day I just thank God that He does not do that in his practice.
Ted: And is that a GP or a Rheumatlogist?
Clint: Specialist, a rheumatologist.
Ted: Wow wow good, I can’t remember very well that rheumatologist at that moment when I came into the hospital for the first time with a swollen knee also asked Professor to come. She said well you are in a very worse situation and you are much too young for having these doses so we have put everything at the same time. And I felt like I am okay, it’s okay I don’t know what’s the best for me and what you want. Because I’m sick and I don’t want to have to spend any more.
Clint: The pain is shocking.
Ted: The pain is shocking for me.
Clint: Oh terrible. So it showed up then you said in your ankle. Let’s go through what happened next. So you remained on the steroid the methotrexate it then showed up you said in your ankle. Yeah I know yeah.
Ted: And that lasted a very long time because they couldn’t find anything in my ankle and I could exactly point to the places where the pain was and then they made an MRI scan and it showed that my ankle already was damaged very worse a lot of things like loss of cartilage.
Clint: Cartilage yes.
Ted: And that was I think five years later. So I lived so long with this pain that was terrible. And then they decided well this is the moment you can start with biologics.
Clint: Now if we’re going back 16 plus minus five is 11. 11 years ago they would have probably recommended Enbrel?
Ted: Enbrel. Yes yeah. And well it is I think 10 years ago I started Enbrel and that was such a big relief. Yes, unbelievable. I felt newborn and we celebrated because after a week I could walk normally and went to the zoo celebrate it, that’s unbelievable. I’m very happy with this Enbrel because it helped all good. After. I think two or three years all infections started and that was the side effects of the Enbrel.
Clint: The infections. What did you get?
Ted: And it always started here and now the nose if (inaudible) when its cold then the throat And finally my jaw bones were affected. My lungs, Pneumonia.
Clint: You got pneumonia?
Ted: Yes, several times and that was the moment I started antibiotics.
Clint: Alright, the story, the story is getting more interesting, yeah. I was going to make some comments about Enbrel. The comments I wanted to make was I see this frequently about Enbrel. Enbrel gives fantastic pain relief life changing stuff. And one of our other guests who has been on the show Katie of course who I know you know Katie she’s been on Enbrel for gosh I want to say something like 10 plus years it might be 15 or something I mean a very long period of time and it was life changing for her. I frequently hear great things about the pain reduction and symptom removing effects of Enbrel forget the side effects for a moment. We’re just talking about the effectiveness of its treatment. And it surprises me that it’s so much less recommended these days than what it used to be. I mean the drug is still available but these days it seems rheumatologists are opting from a vast selection of biologic drugs that are maybe the latest or the newest and more interesting. But I don’t see them working near as effectively as the feedback that I constantly get from Enbrel. So just that I’m I’m just sort of saying these things for our viewers listeners who’d be interested to get that insight that I see frequently that Enbrel gets great results. And of course, I’m just speaking from the feedback that I see from our forum members and from emails and so forth because there’s just a vast number of people giving me information and I hear it frequently. So why it’s not more recommended I don’t know whereas things like Xeljanz which is a tablet biologics I hear frequently bad things about that that it didn’t work or that it had terrible side effects and yet it seems to be recommended more and more and yet again my little view of the world than the way that I gather information is quite unique which is just from feedback from people with rheumatoid arthritis. And these are some of the trends that I see Enbrel still works and these new ones just don’t seem to work so good. So anyway thanks for letting me share that little bit of information. Okay. So pneumonia, goodness several times this is serious stuff. And then so talking about antibiotics now you can see the frowns come over my face when I hear antibiotics because that’s the cause how I developed rheumatoid arthritis.
Clint: Oh my gosh. Tell us what’s happened when you started.
Ted: So first of all the Enbrel was perfect. So after few years, I got these infections and they were getting worser and worser and on certain moments they were so worse that I had to use antibiotics not only for a short period but for long periods.
Clint: For the infections.
Ted: Yes three months at very high doses because I had a very last infection on my jawbone it was all between my mouth and my sinus because of the infections it was very worse and I had several operatiions.
Clint: Face operations?
Ted: Several operations yeah Face Operations. Yeah and the insides of my jaw bones. Gosh yeah. I mean how do you call it this here got this.
Clint: Under the cheekbone.
Ted: Yeah under the cheekbone.
Clint: And they did a fabulous job because you can’t see any insertion or anything.
Ted: No they did it from inside.
Clint: They went all through the mouth and.
Ted: Yeah transplantation.
Clint: People who don’t have inflammatory arthritis autoimmune conditions could not imagine the kind of things that we have to go through. When you have these diseases and then try and treat them with these medications that can cause so many problems. You know just before we started our conversation you talked about your participation in a study and we’ll get into that in just a second but I mean that’s going to be a perfect seg way as to why people don’t talk about this disease I mean who wants to tell their friends I’m going for face surgery for my cheekbone because of some space in here that’s been caused by all of the side effects of this horrible medication that I take for this terrible disease that I have. I mean Goodness, mate. I mean you can understand why people don’t want to talk about this stuff because it’s it in.. for want of a better word. It’s just sort of ugly isn’t it’s just not nice it’s it’s hard and so I can completely relate completely relate to the mess that we all go through with this condition.
Ted: So it’s very much very much. Yeah but you never can see it at the outside. That’s the problem. Yeah. And people always say but you’re looking so good, looking so well. They don’t understand the problem you are dealing with. But then I had to use antibiotics for a very long period and then you have to stop your biologics and then after that when all was healed. I had to restart it and then it didn’t work anymore. That’s also not from the Enbrel.
Clint: And so the Enbrel did not work after you stopped it for a while.
Ted: Yeah. And that’s
Clint: Common, really common, very common. If you’ll allow me just a moment just to share what I see from other people. When some people, for example, are taking methotrexate for a period of time and then after they’re on Methotrexate for a while maybe their liver enzymes go up which are the ALT and AST readings in your monthly blood test that you have to have. So if the liver enzymes go up the rheumatologist knows from their education that that’s dangerous and we better take him off methotrexate. Now I was fortunate my rheumatologist realised that I was it was fairly stable platform with my drug treatment and he said I don’t want to stop the drug let’s increase folic acid will put folic acid the day before and the day after of your methotrexate and my liver enzymes came down enough for me to stay on the medication. Now I don’t see that kind of sort of temporary test intervention done much by other rheumatologist they’ll often see some liver enzymes go up and they’ll say you’ve got to stop the methotrexate. People stop the methotrexate within two three weeks sometimes a month or even two months at the most. The liver enzymes come all back to normal all their symptoms come back they go back on methotrexate now it doesn’t work. And they’ve been on it for years. So I see this personally and I’m sure rheumatologist see this all the time so you know, there’s not really an action point here but it’s just a cautionary insight that when our treatments working don’t mess with it because it’s just as delicate as the healing process of the gut where everything must be. You know I say the path through the mountain is very narrow and it’s same it’s a tight rope. The medications as well so once it’s working. Boom. Let’s just not rock the boat. And if we need to kinda find little tricks like the folic acid trick to stay on a drug if it’s otherwise working then we should do it.
Ted: Yeah never heard that before.
Clint: Right right. Yeah.
Ted: So you took the folic acid before the metrothexate?
Clint: So there are two ways of taking folic acid with methotrexate. One is to take a little bit of folic acid every day except the day that you take the drug. So you do six days of folic acid in small doses and one day of medication. And the other way is to take one day of folic acid the day before the one medication and the folic acid is a large dose, I think 5 mg. Don’t quote me on that. It’s been a long time since I’ve taken folic acid. And so my rheumatologist said Take one also the day after. Okay so we’re gone with one the day before then my drug then another one the day after because that the drug metabolizes the folic acid just uses it as part of its… It consumes it as part of its working mechanism. And so we don’t want the drug consuming our own reserves our human reserves. We need to supplement it so it uses up a supplemented reserve and in a way that did the trick, t hatdid the trick for me. And if there’s anyone sort of you know paying attention here who is in a situation or in the future where the ALT AST go up which is very common with methotrexate is definitely something to speak to the rheumatologist about. If the drug is going well because stop start technique does not work out too good for too many people. So, look and if the enzymes continue to stay elevated even after that little intervention well safety needs to come first and a discussion about you know the drug usage or not is obviously on the table for the rheumatologist but you know that little trick worked for me.
Ted: Yeah. Perfect. I didn’t know that because here in Holland you always had to take that folic acid. Twenty four hours after the methtrotexate.
Clint: Well you know what my memory might be fading just a little because I was diagnosed in 2006 only two years after you. So it’s been 14 years. And of those only. I think only the first five was I involved with drugs so. But I think it was the day before. So anyway look I went after we’d have to do a survey in our forum and find out. Anyway, let’s pick up your story and talk about how you felt after the enbrel stopped working after the antibiotics and where did you go from there.
Ted: Well then, I had to start the biologics and I wrote them down. Yeah. First of all the Orensia that was via intravenous, I don’t know how to say it.
Clint: Intravenous. Yeah. We said yes. You said this intravenous. Yep. How frequent were the intravenous?
Ted: Once in four weeks every four weeks. One day at a hospital. But that didn’t work or did the work. Yeah. And I had Dosilisumap.
Clint: Yeah, said that one again.
Clint: I’ve seen the word I’ve never spoken it out loud. I’m familiar with it. How did that go?
Ted: And I was awful because that has very very nasty side effects. Dosilisumap interferes with your autoimmune system but also can and interfere with your ESR. So yeah that’s very nasty. You can have you can be very sick for example appendicitis and then ESR normally a race very much but this Dosilisumap suppress your ESR, ESR isn’t it?
Clint: Yeah yeah. One of the inflammation markers.
Ted: So you , maybe have the ESR for (inaudible) because Dosilisumap is zero.
Clint: And so you’re not aware of some of the inflammation in the body which means that you could be having something terrible happening and you don’t know right.
Ted: But with me, happens the opposites. I got very high ESRs. That was also very strange but it’s clear that Dosilisumap didn’t work.
Clint: Okay no symptom relief?
Ted: Then I had to go to Humira. That’s very famous Humira. Yeah. And that didn’t work at all
Clint: And I think the mechanisms are somewhat similar to Enbrel.
Ted: Yeah. Humira and Enbrel.
Clint: If you know I I’ve seen people explain before that their doctor had them on Enbrel and then said Well don’t worry about you Humira because it’s a similar mechanism at play. Whether or not that’s totally accurate I’m not sure. But yes. Let’s go ahead from there. You’ve failed failed failed. Whta happens next?
Ted: Ahm well in the meantime I discovered the Paddison Program.
Clint: Okay good. Now we got this positive news.
Ted: Yeah yeah 3 years at roll because all those medications didn’t work and I had um I think it was before Humira already I’m not sure about it anymore. It didn’t work at all. I had swollen knees swollen ankles and very very worse. I can’t remember most awful periods is Christmas 2015 I was so in pain I only could lay in bed. My husband had to take care of me. I couldn’t walk. I was completely stiff and I couldn’t sleep because of the pain and the medication didn’t work. And then I found Paddison Program and I had to start a new biologic and I wanted to start Paddison Program and that was a very interesting period because at the beginning of a new year and 2016 and I came to a rheumatologist and she saw how bad my situation was and she suggested a new biologic. I don’t know exactly which one it was and I wanted to start at Paddison Program. So I thought well I want I wanted to read alot about it and to prepare myself and I thought well if I start with a new biologic I don’t know if the Paddison Program will work for me. So I went to biologic first before I start that Paddison Program because my situation was very bad and I remember very clearly that my knee was swollen. I was in pain and a nurse from the rheumatologist caught me by phone. Are you already started, started with your new biologic. No, not yet because I have flu but it was I want to have time to see how the Paddison Program works. So I (inaudible) and with in 24 hours I could walk. I had no I could get up from my bed without help I could walk to the bathroom and within 24 hours it was unbelievable. I couldn’t believe it. So for me, it was truly a Paddison Program work. And then after which I also started the new biologic. I don’t know which one it was for me it was a hundred percent clear. This works this diet because first I start with a diet and not to exercise because I wasn’t able to do exercises at that moment. Yes, it was very very impressive. So I was very motivated to go on the program and the diet and from day one until now I never ever had this pain again never never swollen joints Yes. but never in pain. Wow, it all but it’s the best motivation for me to go on with the diet and a whole lifestyle change.
Clint: Yes yes yes. Well okay. Now you mention that you still get the swelling but not the pain. That’s really interesting. Yeah. Where. Which which joints. Then we have a skipping three years here by. But we’ll come back to those which joints get the swelling and not the pain.
Ted: Ahm the only joint that is a little bit swollen is my wrist my left wrist. I have no pain at all and that’s already for three years. And so the rheumatologist did several times a function to take the fluid out and to get Prednisone in it but no. And no improvements at all but no pain never pain. My niece sometimes are a little bit swollen and that exactly know. Okay, I had too much from this I had too much from that. Yes but let me in my diet. Yes. Oh I think stress stress is also for me and a traitor is something that I has no joint pain never.
Clint: And it is absolutely remarkable given that where you were I mean if this was the first interview that I had ever done with one of my clients and them tell me that I would just be like so they gobsmacked and just talking about all the details for the next 10 minutes. But like you know every guess that we have on the show has one of these unbelievable stories and so has kinda like ah yeah Ted just got rid of like 10 years of excruciating pain. Cool. You know I like it you go and dig a little desensitised to the enormity of the stories sometimes but I mean let’s just for a moment just acknowledge how incredible that is. I mean it’s absolutely remarkable now in the Netherlands. Everyone likes to I believe eat lots of cheese. So were you eating a lot of cheese prior to starting the program what is your diet looked like.
Ted: Well I had a really healthy diet. We didn’t eat meat every day. We burnt which I indeed eat a lot of cheese. That’s true yes. And a lot of milk a ha. We are raised with the idea that milk is necessary every day. Yeah ,I am but am yes I eat a lot of cheese and a normal healthy diets. That seems like that’s right.
Clint: How healthy can be healthy compared to the average western diet but not healthy in the way that we know that we need to eat. When we have to heal a terrible digestive problem right.
Ted: Yeah. Yes.
Clint: It sounds to me given that you probably were eating in a somewhat healthy again compared to the average westerner. That may be a large portion of your inflammation came from dairy products. You mentioned the milk you mentioned the cheese you haven’t eaten them in three years. I’m not saying it was just that but they were probably a large portion of it given that you weren’t eating meat every single day. I tend to see it more often any way that the dairy seems to be more inflammatory and more of a trigger for people than what just animal proteins are an animal fat. Just the caffeine in the dairy the mucus forming nature of it it’s so allergenic it’s just it’s just not human food by any stretch of the imagination. And so it was probably playing a larger role than what.
Ted: I don’t know because I already discovered before the Paddison Program just sugar was like a bad trigger for me.
Clint: Sugar yeah
Ted: And now I am also convinced that oil or fats is very bad for me in my situation.
Clint: Yes most definitely so oils. Or if we were if we listed them from number one worst possible thing you could eat if you’ve got an inflammatory condition is vegetable oils as absolutely number one. Like if we took a group of 50 people with an auto immune condition and as a horrible torture made them consume the oil that fried french fries are cooked in in a shot glass the night before they and they go to bed the next morning every one of those 50 people are going to be swearing at me and very very angry because of the inflammation in their body. Not one person will escape the shotglass of sunflower oil whatever cooking oil inflammation that will follow. It’s just as straightforward as that. And then with time it’s possible to tolerate non processed fats like nuts and seeds for example and things like chia seeds is something that I’m actually encouraging more people to eat. Once they can eat nuts you can eat nuts. People should definitely be eating cheese seeds because.
Ted: I don’t dare to eat.
Clint: You know you’re too scared totally understant, Yeah I totally understand when the confidence is there and you’re eating nuts and you’re eating other seeds for instance like pumpkin seeds or sesame seeds or something. There’s no fear whatsoever in trying chia seeds and the benefit of the chair is there a mega 6 and mega three profile that’s hard to find foods that are rich in a meager 3 and low in a meager 6 and chia seeds are one of those so if other people watching and they’re already able to eat a range of different nuts or tolerate a couple of nuts chia seeds should be should be an easy addition and a really good quality addition. An antiinflammatory addition. The issue is getting to that point the issue is getting to the point where we can tolerate high fat foods at all and that took me years. So you know that one of the big milestones for me was when I took ground up flax seed out of my smoothies and I was putting them in because we were going with the generic information that you find on the Internet that you know omega 3 fats eat them and your inflammation goes away. All right. Let’s put Chees, flaxseeds in the smoothie inflammation like crazy. Soon as I took it out again just through experimentation months and months of pain doing the same thing every day pain pain pain excruciating gout walk Bikram yoga every day 25 mg methotrexate fingers swollen ankles. So bad I can barely walk. Chest hurts jaw hurts. I mean absolute shocking. Take the bloody flax seeds out of the smoothie. Oh my God, it’s like half my pain is gone. Now I’m only in agony as opposed to triple agony right. And so these were big milestones and taking the olive oil off my salad. That was another massive milestone I didn’t see the connection of being fat. It took me months to work that out as well.
Ted: Well I can tell you what a nice example of this can be good. I started the program three years ago and I was fully committed to the diets and I followed it exactly step by step. As you could read it and then I lost a lot of weights. I lost 25 kilos. Well, you’d have all around me you know. Family, friends. Everybody started saying oh that’s not good. You’re looking not good. You lose too much weight you are on the wrong path with his diet. Please start fats eating fats. You can’t miss fats. So after a period and a few weeks that everybody kept telling that to me I thought well I’m feeling okay that maybe I’m wrong and have to start eating fat. So I start it’s adjusting seasonally eat oil.
Clint: Sesame seed oils?
Clint: Oh my God. You don’t need to tell me what happened next.
Ted: It went completely wrong. I was in well I used a lot because I thought well maybe I need this and maybe it’s better for me. And at that moment I saw four months after starting the program I got completely stiff. I. It’s my husband made some (inaudible) for me. I couldn’t nearly walk. I had no pain, that’s strange. No pain but completely stiff and swollen joints very on knee ankle joints. And at that moment to rheumatologist gave me again more prednisone and all this things. The whole thing started again and I thought no it’s the oil. I’m absolutely sure it’s the oil so I cut oil again and that it went it is better. Yes, it was a very good example from that oil is the trigger for me for inflammation.
Clint: Yeah it’s it’s pure, not pure it’s just extremely high in a mega 6 fatty acids which are an inflammatory trigger. Simple’s that so that’s it. So you basically just pouring gasoline on top of a fire. That’s all that’s what’s going on. It’s amazing that this isn’t so well-known. It’s incredible. It really is and people screw up their face and think What are you talking about like I lose people immediately if I meet someone who knows someone with rheumatoid arthritis and I’m speaking to them on an aeroplane or I don’t know like I’m just at a social event or something and they say Oh my mother has that or my brother whatever and I say okay like look go home and the very first thing you want to do if you want a massive intervention I said it’s almost hilarious how fun this is because it works so well just give them three days and do not allow them to put any oils on their salad. No oils in the cooking sea have to cook. Don’t use the stir fry. No oils for three days change nothing else and I’m late. I guarantee you that you can get rid of a ton of their symptoms and they’ll feel really great when they look at you in the light. No no oil what do you mean no oil and said. And instead of instead of being excited about the challenge three day simple challenge they just get away. What do you mean that oil is good for you and then and then I start to lose faith in humanity and just give up. So you know sometimes people go in and do the challenge which is cool but you know people are so so brainwashed it’s brainwashing that that oils are healthy.
Ted: The same with milk. Milk is such an essential food here in Holland and you can’t live without milk, Cow milk. That’s well, I can.
Clint: Yeah absolutely. The statistics when they talk about hip fractures and they talk about the false the false positives of milk they always refer to the Netherlands because I believe that you’re in the top two or three of hip fractures in the world because and you also consume the most dairy per population. They also draw upon the statistics for New Zealand and Australia. Yeah. Yeah. I know. Yeah. So if you want a broken bone go drink more milk you’ll be getting there you know sooner than everyone else.
Ted: Still, here, they say the rheumatologist and the nurse from rheumatologist. Did you need to have calcium from milk and ffrom cheese and I let’s do my blood tests twice a year. A whole range of things also the calcium. And my Calcium is perfect.
Clint: Of course it is in fact. Yeah exactly. Yeah, no problem. Yeah. Yeah exactly. It’s for people who aren’t as smug about this knowledge as you and I in the program. There is a ton of leafy greens that contain lots of calcium and there’s a lot of other foods that contain calcium. But here’s the kicker our calcium daily requirement is actually very very low. Once we take out all of the things that drip our bodies have calcium. Yeah, those things namely are animal proteins. So once we take animal proteins out of the diet because they’re the calcium thief if you remove the thief then you don’t have to repopulate the calcium much into the body because nothing’s being stolen. Yeah. So but but the good news is that even under those situations there’s still heaps of calcium when you’re consuming a plant based diet like Paddison Program. I’ve chatted more than I normally do because I’ve I’ve kind of first of all it’s been a long time since I’ve done one of these interviews we’ve been in the States for a month and so I’m a little bit of a chatty Cathy today because I’ve had a chance to enjoy chatting with someone about these fun topics face to face for five weeks so I’ve been talking a little bit more than I normally do. And so we’ve used up a little bit more of our time but I’d like it to share some. I would like to at least cover the following couple of things which is your participation in a recent study about anxiety and fear and so forth. And also want to hear some tips from you from doing the program over three years that you’ve learnt that have been especially helpful so why don’t we go in that order. Talk about the study that you were recently involved in and why that might be interesting.
Ted: Yeah well the university hospital here I am (inaudible) and did a study two years ago amongst patients with RA about an hour and a half from gloomy people are not fashion but only gloomy and there was an interview on paper and the outcome was as they taught me and I don’t know the words surprise because the outcome was that lots of people were only gloomy indeed very depressed and had a lot of fear and anxiousness at not only the older people but even the younger patients with RA. So it had to continue on this new outcome and started a new research about depressions and also in research on paper again and and they wanted, they like to interview those people also personal. So I went there a few weeks ago for an interview. And during this interview it’s a I think it lasts one half hour I talked about my own experience and I realized yes I had this as well. I have completely forgotten this. I have. I suppress it and see if I get anxious as well. And about what about my future about can I be independent about my pain. Am I how can I live my life in this situation all those things. And they came old back during this and saying all right I’m out. And I realized yes I have gone through this as well. So it was also healing for me this interview. And then there was an air researcher told me that there were very less people all wanted to talk about this. It was a very difficult subject amongst people who are especially to talk about it. So I was the first one and am well I am very curious to the outcome of this whole project. Yeah.
Clint: Yeah. You be the only one who wants to go and talk about you know how you feel and your moods and so forth. Because you’re on the positive end of the spectrum.
Ted: Yeah exactly yes.
Clint: Because you’ve got knowledge that very few other people with rheumatoid arthritis have. Despite my best efforts to do interviews like this and to you know create content and share it with people still so very few people know this information. Follow this program or even something more generic like just a simple plant based diet. And so they no one wants to talk about it. I remember that I would go through Gosh. Anxiety definitely is the right word about social events. When I was highly inflamed I didn’t want to see anybody I just didn’t want to be social whatsoever. I didn’t want people to once again question why I’d lost more weight because I was on a raw food diet for eight months and you talked about a lot of weight loss. You know as soon as you shift across to Raw Foods it becomes even that extra level of challenge to hold the weight. And I was doing Bekim yoga every day which is as you know very low calorie calorie really was the Word uses up a lot of energy. And so I did want to see people questions like or just the look on their face to that extra half second that they look at you like oh well something’s wrong with him. You know what i mean, that a guy’s not doing too good. And so I didn’t want that feeling I didn’t want to pretend that I was doing well. I’d have to kind of try and walk more steady even though I was limping and try not to limp. I just didn’t want to. I just said Melissa I just don’t want to see anyone. And this went on for a very long time and the whole time I’m doing stand up comedy. So I’m like the focus on the Yeah Yeah. Yeah I’m like worried about how I’m going to step up onto the stage at some clubs because I remember that club. It’s like the step up onto the stage is knee height. All right so I got to be super careful when they introduced me that I did I’m right next to the stage so that I can step up with my good leg and then get to the microphone without drawing too much attention to my limp. I did some TV appearances where I’d look at them nonetheless. It’s just shocking I just don’t like it. Like now what’s crazy is people don’t care as much as what we think they think. Okay that guy or that lady skinny or whatever or doesn’t look too healthy. But they don’t think about it for more than a few seconds except your family and your family. Dwell on it. It’s like weight loss to the family is almost like the ultimate signal that they need to get involved. They need to stop whatever it is you’re doing. But if your skinny to anyone else they don’t care. I got friends that like mate when you’re skinny you look good you do skinny really well and they don’t want to do skinny really well you know. I’ve always been skinny through my whole life and now I’m used to it but it’s nice either. We all feel better when we feel like we’ve got a few more few more pounds and I feel like I’m rambling I could talk to you all night. Let’s go back to. Let’s go back. I apologize if I just I just chatting so much. You know we got that. You’ve been overseas haven’t done one of these and I got a couple three little kids and they just want to talk about toys all the time and my wife wants to talk about the kids and so I’m socially deprived. Talk about your rheumatologist have you got the rheumatologist that everyone says is fantastic in the Netherlands and they’re supportive of our program and is familiar with it. If you’ve got that rheumatologist.
Ted: Well let’s say like this way. I have fantastic rheumatologists from day one when I came for the first time and I still come to her. That’s in your program a very important issue is also that you learn people how to deal with your rheumatologists and that was very important for me because it’s a normally I am somebody who is somebody who says well this is what I do and blah blah blah blah blah. But I was very gentle and I respect her. And i told her honestly what I was doing means and I knew she wasn’t okay with it but I I am open to her and we discussed that we should be honest to each other yes and she only did when I told her about her diet. Yeah. No no no no no. And I said oh I’d try it. And I I said I do it. And she was okay with it. Yeah. She didn’t say that I didn’t have to do it but she had no confidence in its confidence. Not at all. And every time I have my appointment with her every three months I always give him the day before an update by e-mail so she knows exactly and always are right in the update. Also still on the Paddison Program diet lifestyle my weight everything and the first year I think she did not ask anything about it, but then, slowly, She asked things about it and I also help her always and a teaching medical students in English. Then I am a patient who is how do you say, study patients and in the ends of the diagnose me and listen to my story. Always the question is how is it possible that you are now in this condition. (Wow) Looking so well looking so energetic looking so vibrant and that was what the research also said from this project and then I asked the rheumatologist do you allow me to tell why I said tell them and then I always tell about Paddison Program and it’s happened already a few times or several times. Immediately the big bang, write down a host’s name or how was it diet and how is the lifestyle. At my rheumatologist. I don’t want to. Am bringing her in a difficult position and that I do something else that is without her treatments. (Yes) so but she is okay with this. And then after two years, I told her Well Clint Paddison also had a special and how do you say it and you have written something special for rheumatologists.
Clint: Oh yes yes the guide for rheumatologist with scientific reflexes. Yeah.
Ted: And I had a me I had printed it out and you had it with me and I told her that you had a made special for rheumatologist are you interested in it. Yeah yeah, I am but I didn’t give it to her. And then again. Then I went outside. She said you should give me a discount. Don’t forget to give me a discount here. And she never ever come back to the subjects but she slowly. I think she slowly understands how important it is at least for me. As you see results in just two weeks it’s yes. So it’s not a kind of discussion with her, she respects me. I respect her and that’s the situation so I think she is for me I’d had a very good Rheumatologist.
Clint: Perfect. Again this is one of these situations that’s not change anything. Yeah you know it’s like the food, the medication and once the rheumatologist relationship is pretty good and everything’s working well. Also, something that we we shouldn’t go and change we don’t need to go and see a different specialist or another opinion once everything’s said.
Ted: It’s very delicate.
Clint: Its delicate exactly, it’s delicate these relationship are delicate. Quickly, and them all wrap up. Have you got any bullet points tips for people that for example. What would you say the most crucial parts of the program to follow if people are following it. What you absolutely must get right.
Ted: Well for me was the pain was and is the pain is the best motivator. I am and if I if I have some little problems because I have eaten something that is not good for me then I know I always go back to day one. I structurally do it every three months, (alright) day one and day two. So only juices and If you have problems I am not in my keys not with pain but with swelling, go back to day one. (Yeah) and can I tell about an example. Yes well last Christmas, I was very strict in my diet is a difficult period at Christmastime but I was very strict in my diet that I drank a glass of champagne you know and it’s okay. But then, the next day three days later again and it was a glass of Porsecco and I like it very much. Only one glass of porsecco and it was a bit of (inaudible) in the evening and then I went to bed and I got a tremendous pain in my chest my chest down to you call stamen and I thought well this is not from my heart’s and it got very worse. It’s I think from the porsecco and that my husband taught me yes because here you have fairly small very small fine joints and it was connected with the breath and muscular movements. (Absolutely yeah). And at that moment I was not in fear, I’m not anxious, not in shocks, relax if this is from the food or the porsecco then I can control it. And that’s a miracle because then I do the next day Tuesday and it was even it was even not necessary. Next morning it was already disappeared but so relaxed underrates and normally all those years before. I always was very stressed very stressed about pain. Now I have a toy to control it (a tool). A tool to control it. Yeah and for me the most important thing.
Clint: Yeah that’s right. This is where I talk about the ultimate goal is complete confidence and control. Yeah once you have complete confidence and control nothing can impact you in a way that you don’t feel you can overcome and you know that chest pain. That’s one of my classic spots in weakness in my history has been that chest and I’ve experienced that. I remember that. That chest pain very much. It’s agonising and. And so to know that you were able to switch that off in 24- 48 hours and you did it even quicker. It just went away quickly. I mean that’s that’s what it’s all about is feeling that you aren’t subject to every twist and turn of the disease without having any control over it. That’s the worst place to be. (exactly) Yeah, that’s where the anxiety is that’s where the worry that’s where the depression is at. So yeah. Awesome. Okay.
Ted: You can’t trust your body anymore. If you are diagnosed you know I know well sometimes I have a little swelling in my knee. I (inaudible) day and then I go to bed. And it’s like a miracle. Three o’clock two o’clock three o’clock. Slowly the swelling is pierce (Yeah) and its is such a positive situation that I think I can control it. How is this possible. Every time I get a miracle.
Clint: Yeah. Yeah yeah well that’s a fabulous point where we might wrap up. It is it does feel like a miracle you know but I think I one time sat down and wrote out miracle as an acronym and came up with something like.. I forget the details but it was basically an acronym whereas massive attack and an intervention so that you create your own result by working really hard. So it’s not a miracle where the intervention is out of out of our control. The miracle comes from extraordinary discipline extraordinary patience and extraordinary mindset to be able to stick with it and to convince yourselves that this is all going to pay off and play the long game so you’ve obviously done that and then what a tremendous outcome. So (it is) I’ve really enjoyed having a chat with you. Come on up to 10 o’clock here at night so it’s a good time for me to sign off and go and get some rest and get ready for the little ones in the morning and just thank you once again for sharing your story and and for you know so many lessons. Didn’t we covered a lot of lessons in your journey. Things that a lot of people may have come across themselves and good to stop and have a discussion about those things so that we can all share what what we know and make sure that we make the best decisions.
Ted: Thank you very much Clint.
Clint: Thank you.
Ted: It was a pleasure for me, Thank you very much.
Clint: Also thanks again.
Ted: Bye bye.