January 13

How Judith Overpowered Ankylosing Spondylitis

We discuss how:

– Judith had a very bad back pain during her pregnancy 9 years ago but managed it with exercise and physical therapy
– After many years she took antibiotics for an ear infection and the pain came back along with an eye infection
– Her eye doctor related it to ankylosing spondylitis and prescribed Prednisone drops directly in the eye
– Her family doctor linked all the symptoms together and sent her to the rheumatologist, who gave her Humira right away
– She found one of Paddison Program’s podcasts and watched it
– She started the Paddison Program right away and within a few weeks there was a significant pain reduction
– After 7 months, she can quantify her pain reduction to more than 90 percent
– Her family supported her and that helped a lot in being fully compliant

Clint: It’s my absolute pleasure today to welcome Judith to this podcast episode to share her story on how well she’s done on the Paddison Program, to inspire you and to give you some tips and ideas about what worked for her. Welcome Judith!

Judith: Thank you, it’s an honor to be here.

Clint: Well yes and we’re just chatting before we started here. How about the different parts of the world that we’re in. You’re in Montana and it’s snowing outside and here I am in Sydney Australia at the moment where we’re living and it’s a beautiful hot summer morning so isn’t the world incredible, isn’t it. I mean you never quite get used to the way that the world differs in its geographical locations and how we can connect like this and share stories, it’s amazing.

Judith: It is amazing, it’s a blessing to have this technology.

Clint: It really is. I want to start this episode a little different. I want to start by reading something out that you posted inside Paddison Program support. And this is what captured our attention. Myself and other members and we were like “Wow! look how far Judith has come” because you’ve been a silent operator. You’ve been doing things on your own and then you’ve come in and you’ve said here’s my six-month update and you’ve blown us all away. Now your six-month update was very comprehensive so I’m just going to read out the first paragraph of this because I think it will really set the scene as to the amount of turmoil that this disease was causing you. The emotional ups and downs obviously the physical pain. So let’s just hear what you wrote here and then we’ll get from you to elaborate more on this part of your life when you were going through this so here we go. So you’ve written November 28th and that’s 2018, so November 28th marks six months of following the Paddison Program.

Clint: It overwhelms me with gratitude when I think about how far I’ve come. Earlier this morning, with my husband out of town and my two sons are asleep, I unloaded the dishwasher. I reached to put two mugs up on the shelf and then I started weeping. It sounds like such a simple thing to unload the dishwasher but it wasn’t simple for me when I started the program. Pain forced me out of bed every night after just three to five hours of sleep with excruciating pain up and down my spine, between my shoulders in one or both of my side joints wrapping around and constricting my ribs. Goodness! The spasming and constriction cause pain. I have no words to describe, it is wretched to be in so much pain and not be able to move a centimeter not even breathe without triggering more pain. The worst is what I call the crying cascade where I would cry involuntarily from sudden pain such as sneezing, coughing or reaching to put away a mug. And the muscle movement from crying caused more and more pain. So this morning when it struck me that I was happily, effortlessly, painlessly emptying the dishwasher, I couldn’t help but cry. I cried from the memory of the pain compared to the perfect ease I felt. Today I cried because I was so grateful to the people who helped me and I cried because now my kids get a mum who is not diminished by constant pain. What a gift.

Clint: Well what a post, and that was just paragraph number one you really have a way with words. Goodness! I mean you really were in a very very bad way from what you’ve described there. I mean can you talk about what life was like when you are experiencing all that?

Judith: Sure, It’s certain a long time ago. So this began when I think my oldest son was still in the womb I was pregnant nine years ago.

Clint: Right. So you think you got the diagnosis whilst you were pregnant.

Judith: Oh no I am sorry. I got the beginning of symptoms when I was pregnant. The back pain began when I was pregnant.

Clint: .Oh right, the back pain. Yup.

Judith: The back pain and joint pain as well, I wasn’t able to vacuum. I remember the back pain was taking over my life for years and years and years. And no one could quite figure it out. So I went to see many different people but. It was quite a mystery. I was able to get some relief with a physical therapist who was amazing and specializes in manual adjustments of the spine. And I was doing a lot of training for a half marathon and lifting weights so I was able to get the back pain under control for a couple years. When my son was probably aged two to five. And then about two years ago I had a really horrible ear infection and I went to a series repeated anti-biotics.

Clint: Oh my gosh, here we go again. I just.. that word antibiotics, it’s just the most…

Judith: I wish I knew then what I know now.

Clint: Oh my gosh yeah, okay. So I can see where this is going.

Judith: It set it off. It all came back and worse. And then I started getting eye infections. And so eye infections were very painful. If you’ve ever had one or know someone who does. All of the symptoms have pain as the common denominator. But I was getting iritis very frequently, I had it about five times in two years. And so my eye doctor was the one who figured it out. He had me tested for all sorts of things because he was concerned that there might be an underlying cause to having iritis s so many times. And he was right. And at the time it came back that the only thing that was worth noting was that I had that HLA-B27 gene which can be associated with ankylosing spondylitis. So my doctor had me write it down. Yeah. So that’s really how we unlock the mystery was from my eye doctor.

Clint: So we do see this in effect another member who has been talking about this at the moment a relationship between the… He has also Ankylosing Spondylitis and he is seeing this uveitis now. Was that different to what you were experiencing because uveitis is an auto immune of the eyes. But the iritis you’ve mentioned. Do you think it was that?

Judith: I’m not sure we should ask an expert. I am not sure if it’s one and the same. So I’m not sure. Because uveitis sounds very very familiar.

Clint: Right right right. Yes. Okay. Well, the solution for that and I’m not the expert in this. Never had this and it’s rare as well. So I have not sort of worked with many folks with it but often drops are put in the eye anti-inflammatory drops, prednisone even into the eye to calm it all down. Was that your treatment?

Judith: Yes Prednisone drops and it would take about a month. Because you had to taper it down each week so it’ll be 4 drops a day then down, down, down. And I was doing that about every other month.

Clint: So I think that we’re talking the same thing. So it sounds autoimmune, it sounds yes related to ankylosing spondylitis related so it’s another target of the body that’s being attacked. Okay. Well obviously that’s awful and at that point did you still have the ongoing back pain or was that still under control?

Judith: No, so the back pain was awful, the eye infections are awful and I also had this moving pain that I had for many years that sometimes it was in the shoulders, sometimes it’s plantar fascitis. Sometimes it’s in my neck, so it’s kind of move around. So I had that as well. So it was a really hard couple of years.

Clint: Now you mentioned before when your son was 2 or 3 years old that the back pain was the biggest problem. Give us a bit of an idea or the timeframe here. When did it.. over how long of a time period did these problems play out. And then at what point did you start getting medical help with drugs and things. And let us hear about that.

Clint: Yeah. For the first part of your question, how did it play out? So the back pain started when I was pregnant and lasted till he was about two and then it came back last 2 years. So that’s like about a total of 4 years every single night. Relentless. 2 years kind of in the beginning and two years most recently. Every single night. And so you can imagine getting three or four hours of sleep at night. You are exhausted. So I was tired all the time, I had two little kids. My husband travels for work all the time. So I was a spin over my head. It was so hard but I didn’t know what was going on. I didn’t know it was all related. And because I kind of have the back pain under control a little bit before I thought I could do it again. But throughout I was regularly seeing a team of wonderful medical professionals, my physical therapists, the family doctor, he was a naturopathic doctor, an acupuncturist. She’s amazing. And then finally and my eye doctor. And so after my eye doctor had said that I kind of brush it off at the beginning Clint, I didn’t take it too seriously. And then when I was traveling a few months later I. was in Portugal with two of my dear friends and we were having so much fun but I was in so much pain! And my friends were eating bread and drinking wine and cheers! So I was just in excruciating pain one night and I was lying there and trapped in a prison of pain where you can’t move and I remember what my eye doctor said and I thought oh please don’t be what he said.

Judith: And I googled it of course which you shouldn’t do but I did. And I saw so many uncanny symptoms that I’ve been experiencing all together in one place and so I was good about holding off on drawing conclusions. My friends were incredibly sweet and supportive. Finally, I just said wait and see and then I saw my family doctor right when I got back. And this was just in April. She was amazing. She was so great. Immediately she had me in the next day getting blood work, getting x-rays and going over my symptoms which I had seen before but we just hadn’t put it together. And so once the full picture was clear, she immediately fast-tracked me to a rheumatologist. And so within a few weeks, I was able to see the rheumatologist. And I had an MRI before I went so we see the inflammation in my SI joints.

Clint: Good doctor, you went in there full of the information that the rheumatologist was going to need.

Clint: So yeah absolutely great doctor. Okay. Now at this point, a lot of people never think about the sacroiliac joint unless it becomes inflamed. Can you describe exactly where it is or as best as you can describe where it is and how it impacts your body when it is inflamed for the non dialed in you know person there yeah.

Judith: Before I know it, I would always say I have hip pain. Yeah, really I would say it’s actually right in the middle of your butt. It’s kind of weird like raking (inaudible) in your butt… In this (inaudible) where your leg is attached and so just feel it, a kind of moving one side is worse than the other or sometimes both and it becomes very painful to bear any weight. So walking, taking full stride is so hard. You just keep bracing yourself for each step and then with the kids. How do you pick up your kid? Because I can’t even bear my own weight so I can’t bear a 3-year-old or 5 year’s old weight. So it was oh my gosh. there’s the nighttime pain I wasn’t sleeping. The day time pain I could barely walk sometimes or not walk at all.

Clint: Shocking. Okay so you walked or did your best to get into the rheumatologist’s appointment and you sat down. Tell us about that, how that went.

Judith: Oh well, she’s wonderful and immediately started telling me the range of pharmaceutical options available to me given my symptoms. And the one she was kind of wanting me to go on was Humira.

Clint: Wow straight away on to Humira!

Judith: She had Humira and methotrexate was kind of an option as well. We’ve been just talking about my health history. It didn’t sound good to her. So she starts giving me a prescription or an inset that had a 12-hour release. It was called etodolac I think. She gave me that (inaudible) but she also said that this is not a long term solution. This will inevitably harm your liver and your stomach. We have to keep testing you, this is not gonna solve your problem. And so I left her office totally demoralized like why am I gonna do? I have a disease she says is just getting worse, t’s just going to get worse and I have no way to address this challenge. What am I going to do? And I was so sad I remembered seeing that podcast title that you had done with Sheree years ago, I guess. Or quite a while ago. And I hadn’t watched the video, I just seen the title but I remembered it and I thought I should go back and watch that. And I am so glad I did because I watched the video and I started the program right away. So I have to say thank you to Sheree. Wherever she is you have changed my life. I really don’t think I would have thought to go on a program for rheumatoid arthritis. I don’t know if I would have put that together. So to Sheree, I am forever grateful!

Clint: I’ll make sure once this comes out I send a link directly to her and make sure she watches this. Yes. Her story was fantastic and I have another ankylosing spondylitis client who hasn’t come on the podcast and I want her to come onto the podcast because her story and her recovery is fantastic. But you know not everyone wants to come on and share their story. In fact…

Judith: I wouldn’t have done this willingly but because Sheree did it, I thought you know what, this is something that I have to do.

Clint: Well thank you. Thank you and this is exactly the importance of doing this because some person can change the lives of many other people. And yes there is another case that is extraordinary but whatever. Maybe one day she’ll want to share her story. But anyway you’ve started the program. Walk us through it, what’s and all challenges, tell us how quickly you saw improvements. I want to hear your experience.

Judith: It was hard. Everything is a little bit overwhelming at first. But I saw pain reduction really quickly. Within just a few weeks it was going down and down and down and then when I stopped taking fish oil supplements it went down a little bit further. And so I was just really feeling good about how each day it was just getting less and less so I stayed with the baseline foods. Those first 12 day foods, I stayed with those foods mostly for almost three months or so and that worked really well for me to go slow and be like that. I was just continuing to bring the pain levels down and down and down. And then at about between three and four months is when I just could feel it. I could feel I am doing great. I’m ready to add foods. And so I started adding foods and slowly and was able to add everything from that relatively safe category and then going on to the moderately advanced. Almost all of those..

Clint: Oh that was so fantastic!

Judith: Oh my gosh! There are little exceptions. They were Tomari sauce, bell peppers, and tomatoes.

Clint: How about that. Just as random as it might be everyone has these little things and this is why there’s no there’s no exact dietary blueprint for every person. We have to go through the process. I mean your combination, those three I mean how random are those three. They’re not linked by any particular family of vegetable. Yeah. Wow.

Judith: I was able to add a wide variety of vegetables and fruits back. And so now I’m just feeling so much better. I would say after maybe three or four months I was at least 80 percent less pain. Now I’m at seven months, I would say I am over 90 percent pain reduction. I’ll say 93 percent pain reduction.

Clint: Isn’t that fantastic now. Well done, well done. You know what a life-changing experience. Absolutely fantastic. How much did you emphasize the green drinks or green smoothies or supplements or these things that other people are going to be wondering?

Judith: Green juice. And I can’t be more emphatic about. When I dialed in, drinking green juice every day. So celery juice first thing in the morning and cucumber juice in the afternoon. That was a huge help. I could see it in the pain numbers, that helps and so I do that every day now. I still drink at least one green juice a day I think that was incredibly important. The other really important thing other than the diet all leafy greens and vegetables were so important but were exercise. And I’m guessing that’s a really common theme for many of the people who are on the program. For me, cardio has been absolutely critical. So waking up having an exercise bike downstairs I can jump on. Get some quick 30 to 45 minutes of cardio and then I have no pain, my pain is gone. And then I often am going to Bikram yoga, usually about three or four times a week. And I would have never done Bikram yoga, I like yoga but I would never have done so now I really appreciate, it’s not easy but it is beneficial.

Clint: You know. Like I mentioned before about a guest who I know very very well I said Guest another person who I worked with her very closely in a one on one capacity over six months and so that’s and what we got her to do also with ankylosing spondylitis, Bikram yoga and she was swimming she likes swimming so we did swimming, Bikram, swimming, Bikram all the time. I mean she became like a superstar exerciser and you are the same. You get up you are on the bike. So good for the hips right. So good for those you know the area that you are affected. And same with swimming. You’ve got that scissor motion with your hips again forcing that blood flow all that movement through the hip area so swimming, cycling absolutely sensational for the sacroiliac area joint area and then you’ve got the cardiovascular pain reduction aspect, as well as the studies, show that by doing exercise it improves the microbiome. So there is a direct link from exercise to gut bacteria. And so, so helpful in conjunction with the foods and of course that is the program the program is not a diet. It’s all of these changes, its all of this stuff.

Judith: I have done it all, I have been incredibly compliant. And I heard you describing it as threading the eye of a needle. And that is exactly what it is. There is no room for messing around, you do what’s on the page. And I have gone off script twice. Once with the same result once was both were for wine. One was at a friend’s wedding with a glass of rossei and the other was more recently on Halloween. And it was a delayed reaction. It probably came on 48 hours. But then I was in an incredibly high pain for four or five days.

Clint: Wow so the reaction was significant.

Judith: Very significant. So I will not be doing that again. Not anytime soon. I’ve learned my lesson, don’t go out of script. So I think being totally compliant is a huge reason why I’ve been successful and because I have such a supportive family and I think that’s the other reason why I’ve been so successful. My. husband is the absolute best and my parents are all amazing and encouraging and helpful. And my siblings are incredible, my one sister flew out to Montana twice, Jennifer flew out to Montana to help me take care of my kids while my husband is out of town. They did so amazing. So that is a huge reason why. That’s it strategy for success: Recruit all the support you can get.

Clint: Absolutely. Wow, that is fantastic. So do they get a buzz out of seeing how far you’ve come? I mean are they just blown away?

Clint: Blown away and so happy! Oh my gosh, Because everyone just was so sad when you hear this diagnosis. And then to kind of see it turn around has been awesome for everybody!

Clint: Can you give me some examples I mean like Christmas is coming up as we’re recording this. You know it’s Christmas Eve here in Sydney. I mean you obviously probably going to have a bit of a get-together and there’s going to be a social gathering. Your health is obviously going to come up in conversation at some point. I mean what’s the vibe at the moment. It must be.. there must be such joy in the family about where you’re at.

Judith: There is so much joy in my family, not only my extended family, I’m the youngest of 5 siblings and so just we’re so tight, so just among us you should see the text exchange you know, even when I told them I was coming on the Paddison podcast! They just are so supportive. I’m trying to think of good, specific examples. Honestly, the most important examples for me are with my kids. So they have a full, present Mom. That’s the main thing that will come up is that I’m able to really be present for them and not be. In the head thinking about how much I need to sit down or “man, this hurts!”. So that’s a huge huge thing. In. Christmas this year were actually not traveling for the first year ever and so we’ll be with like-minded friends you know and I host at my house which makes things a lot easier. So I can have an array of foods that I can eat and then be with friends who are just rooting for me every step of the way.

Clint: It’s so good to have the event or Christmas dinner whatever at your house is definitely the way to go because you’re in control. As soon as you step out and you’re in someone else’s environment, it creates anxiety. It means you’re very vulnerable to having to snack on something that you know is not right but you’re getting hungry and there’s social pressure. Come on have this, have that, try this try that, and you don’t know what’s in the food if it’s oily. You know it’s very very challenging so very wise having it at home. Looks like you’ve got a lovely kitchen from the background that I can see there, looks like you can make a nice place for hosting. So yeah definitely another smart move.

Clint: And you mentioned before about being present with the kids I’ve described to Melissa in the past, when you’re in pain there’s something not right in your body and you know for me the feeling’s like having a radio station that’s always on and you are always distracted by this thing that’s in the background whatever it might be, whatever joint is hurting or something’s just a bit off. And yes you are there, yes you’re listening, yes you’re participating but that radio station never stops and it says yeah and shutting that thing off or getting rid of 93 percent of its existence is pretty amazing.

Judith: It’s amazing and even just being able to do fun things with my family. The ability to go for a hike is changed completely. Everything is better.

Clint: Tell us about any other tips and so forth that you’ve let, you mention. I’ve picked up three things that ah…Gosh, you’ve done a lot of things that really need highlighting. First of all, massive compliance with the food and exercise. Remembering that that is kind of 90 percent of the program is the food and exercise. Everything else is just you know a little bit of an assistance but you’ve got the food and exercise absolutely dialed in and you’ve got the best exercise you’re doing Bikram which is the most anti-inflammatory and you’ve got the exercise bike. Do you know that those two things exercise bike and Bikram have always been my two staples? The bike helped me recover from the worst periods of my knee problems, Bikram’s has always been there for me for anti-inflammatory. So that’s my little personal combo that you now use as yours which is wonderful. And then you also mentioned the green juices. Again that was something that I kind of discovered in a way just combinations on like this. This thing kicks arse, I was like” this unbelievable”. And so I just kept drinking that celery and cucumber juice. And. And we constantly keep hearing that feedback is that yah really helps and say you emphasize that as well. The support aspect, I keep talking about it all the time. You know the support. It’s number one influencing factor to success and so you’ve just got that in droves obviously a wonderful supportive family around you. And what a blessing to have that so yeah. Is there anything that I’ve missed that you think also needs to be to be shared that really you’d like to make sure people understand?

Judith: Well I have some practical advice. Well, I love cooking and a variety of foods I miss a little bit. And so I wish I’d known this right from the beginning coz they’ve been so helpful. There are three small appliances that really elevate healthy food. First one is an air fryer. Have you heard of an air fryer? I use a lot of zucchini chips, squash, kelp chips now I use it for Brussels sprouts or okra. So the air fryer really gives you variety in texture.

Clint: A crunch.

It’s worth the 50 bucks or whatever it is. The second one is the instant pot which everyone knows about. So I won’t say too much other than sweet potatoes and potatoes and instant pot, I eat that at least once a day, those have been so so good. And the third one is a Yonanna’s maker. Do you know that Clint? It’s a device that takes frozen bananas. And you just feed it through the tube and it trashes it out and becomes like chasseur. It has a mouthfeel of a real ice cream, of chasseur ice cream. And so for me, my go-to dessert now is just shake a bag of bananas and cinnamon. And then push those through the Yonanas maker and I have this amazing cinnamon ice cream then I can force some warm cherries or some baked apples. And so when my family and friends and everyone’s having something sort of special treat, I have something that’s really delicious. So that Yonanas make (inaudible).It’s really worth it. Get the right tools, you know get those silicone baking pads. Get a really good nonstick skillet. Just get the right tools if you can afford it. Cooking without oil is not that hard once you have the right tools.

Clint: That’s fabulous. Yonana. Wow okay, fantastic! it sounds ideal for our kids too. They would love to have something that replicates the ice cream without it…

Judith: Mixing things into it. So it’s very very versatile but it’s just not bananas. It’s really awesome.

Clint: Yeah.

Other advise that I would offer Is the mentor. Advice for me that’s really got me through a lot of those social times like when everyone’s having a (inaudible) on me is that I have to remember the long game. For me the long game is. decades of healthy life with my family. So when I’m in those situations where. I’m in a restaurant and. the only thing I can order is water and I’m with all my friends. I have to think this is a temporary fleeting experience. And it does not weigh nearly as much as the decades of hell in my branch life that I see ahead of me and so just to have that quickly in mind like “nope, I want this life more, this way is a lot more this is a lot more. And then let that pass and still get the healthier life. That is my mental check –  is just remember the long game and it plays right into your advice which is really don’t forget your compelling future.

Clint: Yeah, yeah I love that. You know and I was just watching Arnold Schwarzenegger he gave a talk and it was in front of a huge auditorium and it was this year. I don’t know why but if someone googles the YouTube title is Arnold Schwarzenegger talks break the internet or something silly like that. But he talks about how other people when they are in the gym and watches his competitors and so forth. They were struggling and their faces grimacing and he said every rep. every rep that he put in and every time he showed up to the gym he was focused on his goal. He only focused on the goal. Why did he not get upset or why did he actually enjoy going to the gym five hours a day. He said because I was always focused on what I wanted to achieve and it was a step closer to that goal. And so when you were talking about being at the restaurant and you’re only having the water but you think you know what my goal is long term decades and decades of health. And you’re focused on that in that moment. Not the fact that you’re a little bit socially awkward and having to order the water and focusing on that outcome. Like he was talking about focusing on winning all of his bodybuilding titles is exactly the same thing. So the bigger picture. Yeah. You know that I’m the same. You know I I think the same way and I’ll enjoy having a debate about you know the foods on the table and stuff and knowing that there’s a big picture at play. There is a big picture and it is. It is a very very big picture, isn’t it? We are talking about decades of life here.

Judith: With no pain.

Clint: Yes that’s right. And we’re talking about such a worthy opponent in these diseases whether it be ankylosing spondylitis or rheumatoid arthritis or whatever title it’s inflammation in the body and it is a huge worthy opponent that deserves the ultimate respect. And we have to tread so carefully our whole lives. So any other comments that you’d like to share with us before we wrap this up.

Judith: Well I had one or two questions for you if you don’t mind.

Clint: Oh please, I love questions.

Judith: I’m just wondering and I mentioned that it didn’t go well with bell peppers and tomatoes maybe that was (inaudible). What in your experience with other people, what are the odds that you know in two years I will be able to eat those bell peppers and tomatoes again?

Clint: I would say that if you keep doing what you’re doing right now and you see 93 percent maybe creep to 94 percent maybe creep to 95 and it is diminishing returns as you would have seen you might get to 95 percent by six months from now, 93 to 95 might take six months right. If you continue to see this steady improvement or at worst holding steady. I’d be surprised if you couldn’t eat tomatoes and bell peppers in a year. Very surprised. I think that that situation will resolve itself. And in this particular specific case, if not well is it really that big a deal tomatoes more so, it’s handy to have tomatoes in because they’re used you know in pastes and they’re a nice addition to so many meals. But look there’s worse things and I’d expect that you should be able to tolerate them and you should test them again. I’d wait six months. I’d wait six months and test them again and test them in a small amount just like a little here and there. Coz your reactions are so bad that I don’t want to see a big reaction anymore and I want big reactions to be a thing of the past. So just a little tomato in six months. See and if nothing and wait you’re 48. You know you also you have a slow delay on the reaction. So you want to wait three-four days yeah and see how you go.

Judith: Another question I have for you is what about topical application of oil like for example essentially oils..

Clint: Yeah no problem. And not only no problem but can be helpful. Yeah. Can be helpful as long as they don’t put it into our mouth. We’re fine.

Judith: Oh good to know.

Clint: Yeah. My wife has a whole range of essential oils she’s quite into them and she uses them on the kids and sometimes myself for various things to avoid the onset of a cold if we’ve noticed that one of them has started to get a little bit of a leaky nose and things like that. Kids love them and because Mum likes teaching them about the various benefits for each one and so on. So yeah. Essential oils are a part of our family. And Melissa loves them and as long as they’re not put into the mouth they can go anywhere on the skin and they’ll have no effect on what we’re working towards.

Judith: And is just what I hoped to hear. Thank you. And the last question I had for you I had a really nice moment with my family doctor when I went for a checkup with her, I guess it was about a month ago as well. And she asked me what I was doing and when I started to tell her, she asked if I was on the Paddison Program. And she herself has been on the Paddison program for rheumatoid arthritis because she has rheumatoid arthritis. So in that moment, looking at this woman who is my friend and my doctor I just had this incredible empathy. We understood how hard it was like nobody else unless you’ve done this program you don’t totally understand and so from that moment just how lovely that was. I wondered do you guys ever have conferences. Is there events that bring people together.

Clint: It’s something that I would love to do speaking, bringing people together, hearing stories. It makes me very warm on the inside. It’s my passion. I’ve been performing as a stand-up comedian for 18 years so I got into that to break down fear of public speaking it’s not something I ever wanted to do as a career stand up comedy. Just as an aside because I’ve never shared this so just as an interesting point because I I like this topic right. You’ve touched upon one of my favorite things which are events and talking right so I got into stand up because I was terrified of public speaking. I was in a high tech startup company and I was had to go to Japan and present at and I was only 23 and I was traveling to the States and Canada during the tech boom and I was absolutely terrified. And so I didn’t tell any of my work colleagues but on the side I was going and doing stand up because I thought that Toastmasters was boring right and they were old people and I was 23 and I thought hey I’d prefer to be at a pub trying to tell jokes and break down the fear that way so I got into that and then I developed this passion for just I guess just communication and speaking and air. I really enjoyed that night, I enjoyed watching people do that and the skill behind that. And so when I first told my story publicly the story that ended up later a few years later I did as a TED talk and so on I found that very very enjoyable, the sort of conveying a live setting of you know storytelling. You know it’s fabulous, it’s the longest most you know natural form of communication in our human history. And so anyway I did the first event in Sydney where I had Dr. Klapper and myself come together and we put on an event at a university. And this is going back now about four or five years and we had 130 people sell out the small theatre at a university in Sydney and it was fabulous. And then the feedback that I was getting both myself and Dr.Klapper afterward, people coming up telling their stories. People had traveled from Adelaide, from Brisbane from the places you don’t know but all over the country. Let’s call it like let’s imagine that it’s in the States and people are coming from Los Angeles, New York, Boston, Montana wherever. Right. And I’m like wow we need to do more of this. And the big plan what I’d really like to do is, of course, we’ve done events now all over the place across the states and especially is to do this more often and also do some small group stuff because people know my story. People can just watch my TED talk or they can listen to a 40-minute version of my story online. I mean my story is it can be watched online. No need to come to an event. But what I thought would be awesome and this is what I’m hoping to do is to do small, intimate what I want to call intensive sessions. Where I can sit down with six people at a time in a town go from town to town or a few towns over a weekend and then come home again. And just get people together who just want to share and learn from me and each other and spend three hours together, go over everything come up with a strategy of what needs to be done. A plan and then everyone can exchange details if they want and then they can go away and implement the plan. So I believe that a plan for someone can be come up within about under 10 minutes so I can look at someone’s situation and say “You gotta get off that truck. You need to increase that drug to get off that drug.” And this is what I would do. I always say that first of all what I would do. But up to you. Your exercise needs to change because it’s not effective enough. Those supplements are useless, take these ones instead. You need some help so either join our support platform or find someone who can be your buddy. Like you said you need these tools. You’ve got to get a juicy you’ve got to do that blah blah blah. And you know just a small amount of time can shift the needle and create a massive change of direction that can create a massive improvement in outcome in just a couple of months. So that’s what I’m more passionate about is creating massive change on a smaller scale more of a small group stuff. I am planning on speaking at some of the larger events next year in the States. I’m waiting on confirmation from some of the more well-known plant-based events and I’m really hopeful and excited that that will happen. And so some of Paddison program folks can come to that I’ll be at that and hopefully be able to meet people at that. Likewise, I’m speaking at an event in February in just six weeks from now, actually hosting the conference there. Well, Neil Benard and some other big international plant-based doctors will be speaking. So that’s another opportunity to meet folks. But I guess I’ve kind of gone on answered this in a big roundabout way and haven’t said well why don’t we just you know get together and stuff but I need to put together some structure where I can cover the costs of travel with a huge caravan of family now. I got my wife and three little ones and you know what it’s like with two boys and you had another one in the mix and it’s expensive for us to travel because you know we also need to stay in accommodation where we can cook food.

Judith: Exactly you need a kitchen.

Clint: Exactly. So. And so if let’s say you know we all jump in aeroplane which has a cost in itself and then we go to a new city. We need a house like we need like or a three bedroom apartment or something an aide and he’s only five months old at the moment and so. We’ve got it like I’d love to in the future do more traveling which I really pulled back because of a young family and so mostly young family like helping out cause just Melissa and I with the three kids. And in the future we do some more traveling, meet more people, get more people together, invite doctors to the events, put on presentations and so forth. But I what I’m passionate about is making a massive change at an event that goes over and above just teaching, just teaching. I feel like if people listen to every podcast that I’ve created I feel like I’ve shared a lot that’s in my head I’m not holding anything back. There’s not a lot that I have left to say right. But everyone’s personal story and situation that’s where you get so much variety. And that’s where you can see someone can make that one change and you’ll be a different person in three months but you need to hear it and be told and looked in the eye at close proximity and says you must do this because you’re not getting anywhere.

Judith: Even for me and my family we felt like we were very healthy. A vegetarian, exercising. But it’s not enough. I mean it has to be the right thing, doing the right thing. And unless you know that, you’re floundering I was thundering, I felt like I got a map from you. Like this is how you get out of pain. But having that in small groups setting sounds really powerful. It’s the directions that they need and the motivation to get started. You know most people can probably gather. Podcasts have most of the information but transformative change in small groups would be amazing. Any of this sounds amazing. So keep us updated, if you do small groups or your conferences that you’re presenting at. I’d love to hear you present and get to meet other people who are following the program.

Clint: Yes absolutely. Well, we can certainly all correspond inside our support platform where you’ve got a lot of wonderful feedback after you posted that great update. One thing I wanted to ask you how’s your doctor doing. How’s your doctor doing with rheumatoid.

Judith: It was early on. I’d have to get back with her and get some more information.

Clint: Yeah. Find out more information. Yeah. Good.

Judith: So, such a nice thing to hear her say that.

Clint: How about that. These things are happening more often which makes me you know get a little warm and fuzzy to know that the doctor is doing it and the doctors suggesting you do it but you’ve done it and you feel tremendous. I mean it’s just great!

Judith: It’s beautiful, yeah I am so happy that she said that she knew what I was talking about!

Clint: And what a great experience for her to see your transformation. It’s so validating for what she’s doing.

Judith: Absolutely and she’s still on to medication so it’s great to see someone down the road like with Sheree I was able see someone down the road and that’s so motivating and empowering.

Clint: Awesome. Well thank you so much, Judith, it’s been really really fun chatting.

Judith: Before we go I just wanted to say thank you to you and to Melissa. You guys have given me and my family a gift. It is more valuable than anything money could buy. It is the difference between pain all day and having my kids just joyfully engaged with me all day. And you’ve helped thousands of us do this so I’m so grateful to you and to Melissa because I know you’re having an incredibly supportive spouse that really she is an essential part of the equation. Please give my best to her in deepest gratitude and for all that you’re doing, I just have to go on record saying thank you for this commitment that you’ve made to help other people. It’s inspiring, it’s awesome. To me, it was a huge honor to get to speak with you. I had seen all of the Paddison podcasts by the way. So I know I am among great company and I really appreciate it.

Clint: Oh thanks so much too, your words mean so much and I’ll share that with Melissa and you’re absolutely right she’s the rock behind all of this because without someone who is you know solid and encouraging and relentlessly helpful and loving, it’s so hard. It’s very very hard. So yeah I’ll go and give her a hug on your behalf and I really really appreciate those lovely words and thank you for sharing your story and your fabulous tips and keep up the awesome work. I’m so happy and so thrilled for you.

Judith: Thank you so much. Have a Merry Christmas. Enjoy it!


Ankylosing Spondylitis, Humira, Paddison Program, prednisone

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