August 13

Selim is overcoming ankylosing spondylitis with the Paddison Program

We discuss how:

– Selim was diagnosed ankylosing spondylitis about a year ago
– He had severe pains and morning sickness and his CRP was very high
– After finding Clint’s TEDx Talk, he started with the Paddison Program and switched his diet to more raw foods
– The pain was gone in the first couple of days of the initial cleanse portion of the Program
– A lot of journaling and cleansing within the Program proved to be a successful strategy
– He also had an episode of Uveitis and got rid of it in 9 days of cleansing
– Support from her girlfriend Gökcen was a key element of his recovery
– Selim is now able to work again and just recently ran a half marathon

Selim and Gökcen’s blog and YouTube channel:

Clint: Excited to have a pair of guests today with me. One is Selim, and he’s going to be talking about his massive improvements with his ankylosing spondylitis that he was diagnosed with a little over a year ago. And his girlfriend Gökcen who has supported him 24/7 throughout this process. And we’re going to hear about his transformation, how he feels now after doing the Paddison Program and learn lessons about how he has implemented the program and what he has been able to achieve. So welcome to the both of you.

Selim: Hello.

Clint: Well why don’t we start as we often do on these episodes, by hearing a quick before and after. Give us a sample of what we’re going to expect.

Selim: Before the Paddison Program, I had severe pains, morning sickness because of my illness it’s called ankylosing spondylitis. And it’s affecting basically the spine, all the spine and the sacroiliac joints is the joint between the sacrum and ileum bones. I mean if it’s really on bad days your movement is very compromised, and also if you have a lot of inflammation your sacroiliac joints then you can’t roll or walk like a 90 year old. So, it’s impossible to (inaudible) more than (inaudible). I wasn’t able to, I couldn’t even walk to a car. (inaudible) really bad. Then after a lot of life changes, it’s got really better, the symptoms are not as much as before, I had a lot of night sweats (inaudible). Let’s maybe start from the beginning how all of this started.

Clint: Yeah, please do. Tell us how it all began. And also I just want to let everyone know that your in Dusseldorf, both of you are originally are German. So you know we understand that English as a second language means that I’m going to talk a little bit slower and I want the audience to also understand that you’re doing this in English for us and we appreciate that.

Selim: Yeah. Thank you very much. Actually we are Austrian but we live in Germany.

Clint: Right, I see. That’s another twist.

Selim: Yeah that’s another twist. Maybe if you (inaudible) come. Yes.

Clint: Great. Well take us back to how it began with the ankylosing spondylitis which has a similar underlying cause in my view. And I want to talk about some of the misconceptions about this later. But let’s hear your story first.

Selim: Before starting the Paddison Program, Like I said in January 2018. I was experiencing a lot of night sweats, back pain it started from the neck all the way down to the sacral iliac joints. My inflammatory markers CRP and ESR are still unusually high. I’m saying say still, because I was on starch reduced vegan diet, (inaudible) of fat and oil as possible. For about 3 to 4 months after my diagnosis, the pain was still there. I was getting a little better and the problem was like, you were also talking in your videos I lost a lot of weight. I lost 7 Kgs in 4 months. Plus basically a lot of raw foods and heads still pale and yellowish color, and not so much energy on some days. The disease was very active at the time.

Clint: Now tell me, let me ask you. Did you just decide to go about that going down that diet path yourself or did you find, did someone suggest this to you? Because what is a common misunderstanding about ankylosing spondylitis is that people should avoid starch and often then replace it with basically anything you want. Animal products, dairy products, and the scientific studies on ankylosing spondylitis I believe are the most misleading of any particular individual inflammatory arthritic condition. Without naming names there have been publications by a particular individual doctor that have been very popular over the years with an anti-starch message. And if you avoid starch which is a complex carbohydrate, and a plant food you then have to look at other things. And I have, for anyone with ankylosing spondylitis who is interested in this a free document that debunks all the science regarding this and shows that a plant-based diet is the solution for inflammation in any joint not just the spine. So I’m curious how did you come about that initial dietary approach?

Selim: And so I was vegan starting from 2014, beginning from 2014.

Clint: I see and so you’ve been plant based for a long time?

Selim: Yeah, I mean I wouldn’t call it really plant based because again your vegan and also a lot of pasta and pizza. I mean, although it was a plant based but not that much of whole foods.

Clint: Gotcha, a lot of processed foods?

Selim: Not really processed, I was cooking (inaudible) not really looking what I was eating. I mean maybe I was eating (inaudible) a lot of pasta and pizza, nuts (inaudible) like salads and vegetables and fruits.

Clint: Yeah I see.

Selim: So I had no I mean I wasn’t also using a diary like I have now, and I wasn’t aware of what I was eating. I mean I’ve also eaten lentils and stuff so, we’re watching a lot of Dr Gregor’s advices, and the other doctors (inaudible) Dr. McDougall. Of course my love for homemade junk foods as I call it, I was a very big, and although it was very stressful over the last few years before this disease. So maybe it was a combination of these 2 and although I mean I’m just guessing but I was eating a lot of oatmeal and I mean 500 grams per day maybe. And the problem in Germany for oatmeal is that it’s very polluted (inaudible).

Clint: Oh my gosh.

Selim: Yeah, and we didn’t know it. So after the disease, a lot of the research also into that stuff. Yeah. And (inaudible) toxins and so on. But at the time I didn’t know it so I was just eating it every day, every morning. And maybe it triggered and affected the permeability of my gut because in some articles it tells that it’s in the gut as an antibiotic.

Clint: Yeah. I was thinking that.

Selim: I tried to avoid antibiotics if I don’t have a huge infection on the other side, probably I was eating it every day like taking antibiotics everyday. So I don’t know, that’s just some theory that’s a lot of this lifestyle, and things got together and triggered the disease. Because of this I mean non-starch thing, yeah that’s a misconception. After the diagnosis I was on a whole food plant based diet. So the starch part was more like not eating tons of potatoes and so on. (inaudible) some people said that it’s in your gut, it’s making the bacteria some form of bacteria grow more that may be related to ankylosing spondylitis. So it was also a not definitive research but for some people. So you wanted to be cautious and I was just writing how many starches I was getting. Trying to get my vitamins all the nutrition from more green vegetables. But of course as I said it was working a little but not that much, the diet and I was losing a lot of (inaudible).

Clint: Well let me just congratulate you first of all, at that time even though you weren’t making as much progress as you wanted you clearly had a great understanding of most of the fundamentals which is that you’re already on a plant-based diet. Okay you might have only been on an okay plant-based diet, but you’re already on the right path. Did a lot of home cooking, great, okay. When you got diagnosed you immediately shifted your diet to more of a leafy green, more of a whole foods approach again like this more.

Selim: Not immediately, I mean there was a lot of discussion which (inaudible). I was more like screaming and running around like no pasta, no pizza anymore how is this possible.

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Clint: Yeah sure. But you got there in the end, and you didn’t have to do it after waiting 10 years and going on to biologic drugs before you made your decision. You went for it straight away, and this is important. This is a really really smart, wise, kind of intelligent thinking. So also the sort of thinking that you can have when you’ve got a clear mind, and you aren’t being influenced by the drug filled and addictive foods like meat and dairy products right? So well done. So you have making some progress but you’re still in a lot of pain, and I can only imagine how awful and really unsettling it must be to have inflammation in the spine. I mean that must really kind of almost like a form of torture, because it’s the foundation of your entire physical existence the spine. And to have inflammation in that, I mean it must be not just physically debilitating but emotionally horrible to experience.

Selim: It was like the inflammation in the spine was making muscle spasms, at night mostly (inaudible) all the night long. One day I was (inaudible) like half conscious and just observing my body (inaudible) spasms through my trapezius muscles, and all the chest muscles, and also the abdominal muscles. And the funny part was, I couldn’t do any sports, and so on, no weightlifting but I was literally (inaudible) six-pack (inaudible) I mean it was shocking. I was in a lot of pain, but also a little funny but worried because it was not normal. (inaudible) device all night long and every night to this muscles. So it tends (inaudible) maybe you know (inaudible) stimulation devices. There’s a lot of advertising for building muscle and so on. Yeah it was really horrible, and like I said I couldn’t, at some point I could get out of bed in the morning. One time I thought I was paralyzed I couldn’t move a single muscle or joint so I was just lying there and in shock. Then it’s got little battle in the passing minutes and some, but I think that day took me 2 hours or maybe more to get out of bed my. Even after you get out of bed the pain is still there and the spine is, I mean you really get it after it gets inflamed and (inaudible) lots you can’t move it much is responsible I don’t know maybe 70, 90% of your movement so yeah completely. I don’t know it’s some sort of paralysis. It was getting better with movement so I was doing also yoga.

Selim: Before the diagnosis started because of my match problems so all started with all the stuff with infection, sore throat infection that lasted upon months. Yeah I think it was one of the longest lasting infections in my life, and after that a neck pain started and it got worse. And then spreads all over the body like the spine and sacral-iliac joints and also to my eyes my chest. And one day I was at an emergency room because of chest pain or this rib pain and they thought it was something my heart and done some tests but it was not the case. And all the CRP and ESR levels are okay. So after awhile they got out of control and (inaudible) maybe you should try a rheumatologist, and so through a family friend the very close family friend we found some and other (inaudible) he also told (inaudible) rheumatologist. And he has done some tests there is typical inflammatory rheumatoid tests like (inaudible) test. Like I don’t know the technical terms like Strober test, like in the most in the lot lumbar spine, the spine parts. Like on this level, and some maneuvers to stress their sacroiliac joints and it was very hurtful and some chest expansion tests. If I could breath normally or is my breathing more shallow, and (inaudible) range of motion like I was doing yoga at that time for about three months or maybe more. But I couldn’t reach my kneecaps.

Clint: Wow.

Selim: And you told us OK you are like 90 year old (inaudible) that’s shouldn’t be the case. It’s definitely not normal. So he ordered some more tests like (inaudible) test (inaudible), And that was positive. And all the (inaudible) inflammation on my spine and on the Sacro-iliac joint. It was an obvious case of ankylosing spondylitis.

Clint: Wow okay. Very interesting and a lot of people who aren’t familiar with the condition I’m sure are now appreciating just how horrible, and significant, and debilitating it is. Thanks for going through all that with us. So in your story I think we’re up to the point where you are several months in, you’ve eliminated starch, you’ve stayed plant based, you’ve made it healthier based on the guidelines from some of our favorite doctors we all know. And then you have now seen a little bit of progress. But let’s now for the rest of our conversation let’s talk positive, and let’s talk about the improvements that you’ve made, and how you did it.

Selim: So all on this process, I mean (inaudible) also a researching as hobby a few hours during the day before my disease and after the disease I think it was like 18 hours full time research on the disease. An totally discovered a lot of things yeah reviewed journals and stuff, scanned a lot of books. And one of the encounters was I think your site or you TEDX talk we don’t know but it was very inspiring. And I was very surprised about the claims, and testimonials, a lot of people have gotten control over their disease, and some have symptom free. It was unbelievable for me because doctors were telling, you have no this disease and you will take NSAID’s or anti-inflammatory drugs. And also at one point (inaudible) you should start with (inaudible) that was like an atomic bomb of medicine for me. It’s suppressing my immune system and I was very very afraid of those side effects. And also of the NSAID’s drugs (inaudible) immediately hooked to a program. Yeah just trying out some free materials and looking at your lists and so on, and after awhile you just follow a no brainer to purchase it and just stop going head on into the program. And yeah that’s I couldn’t start immediately I mean I think it was January, end of January 2018 I was prepared I set my mind to start and go with the program.

Selim: And so was I (inaudible) were the first day of the cramps. For the first time in my life it was a little hard, but the second day was really really shocked so I jumped out of the of bed, and I think ran to the toilet in the morning. And then my circulatory system just collapsed, so I was just sitting there for 3 hours. I think I couldn’t and had nausea but.

Clint: So you body just wasn’t used to it. Suddenly you’re doing.

Selim: It wasn’t used to it. And after that we have read a lot of fasting and so on. And normally people have much more symptoms if they are not on a plant-based diet before, so their body releases I think all the toxins and so on. Yes of course you don’t get a lot of calories, so you must be like to say in your videos the rights and (inaudible) ran around the house on just be calm and rest.

Clint: Watch TV his all night.

Selim: I mean it was an eye opener and I recall all the pain was gone, and afterwards I couldn’t believe it. We already knew that something had something to do with gut, food and so on. Just eating a little salad for 2 days without anything, and you are like pain free. I mean how could this be possible because the doctor said okay you must take this every day is and say you’re going to take the biologics now so it’s unbelievable. And then I was hooked of course to more books to the program, and we started the testing with the foods. Of course, the pain comes back a little, and the tests progress and some foods I have problems like shades. And in the beginning the sweet potato was, I was eating sweet potato and had a little sweating and the body was reacting to it. So the sweet potato it just get used to it and it will be exciting.

Clint: Isn’t that very interesting, when the conventional medical scientific approach with ankylosing spondylitis and diet is to avoid starch. And after two weeks you’re eating sweet potatoes like crazy, and you’re feeling better. I mean it just it’s so stupid. I mean I really really take it personally when there are publications in the medical literature that are downright wrong. I find that offensive because people trust the medical publications, and it’s just so upsetting and that’s why with ankylosing spondylitis in particular. They are most incorrect.

Selim: Yeah. This plant-based approach where you eat a lot of green stuff is like making wonderous, I mean like you said it salads with every meal helps so much. And yeah for keeping up your, I mean you are used to other routine and you only eat salad for example this is very difficult because you get to see this hunger. How do you call it in English, I don’t know this in German it’s called (inaudible)? It’s like where you crave like crazy sweet stuff for others. And the sweet potato and then. I mean it’s not like jelly bean, it’s something you can do you can put fire and fire on to onto this craving great fire of craving. It’s definitely helping, and I had a lot of problems with the other approach with this raw. Their only eating raw approach (inaudible) it’s was very difficult, and I don’t know if I (inaudible) It’s like one year or more.

Clint: Well you know that, well you may or may not know I did raw for 8 months and I had significant but inconsistent results from doing it. But let me just say a couple of things about it, about a raw vegan approach my experience. First of all, my weight loss was like world class, I mean I was skeleton like at the end of that and I was counting calories and was doing over 3000 calories a day mostly coming from soaked almonds, and soaked macadamias, and soaked pumpkin seeds. And even with the ton of fruit, fruit juices, dates, as many calories as I could consume in a day and counting them. I couldn’t keep my weight on and got very very skinny. That was one thing. The other thing is that I was making mistakes though during that time, I was having some oils if I remember correctly because I hadn’t yet had my discovery. Where one night I told my girlfriend now wife to leave the oils off the salad because I’d become so paranoid about them and we had an argument about it and she left the oils off one night. And then she said but it’s going to taste horrible the salad it’s plain how can you eat it? And I’d like just let me test it, I haven’t tried it and I tested it and next day felt tremendous and so and never had the oils ever again.

Clint: And then also I was making mistakes like getting whole coconut’s, paying five dollars for a coconut. Drinking the coconut water and then thinking what a waste, I’ve paid five dollars for a coconut I’m definitely going to eat the meat on the inside as well. And it wasn’t until I only drank the water and threw away the rest then I feel good the next day. And I was making all these mistakes right so, but raw foods so hard that I don’t recommend it because I just don’t want to worry about people if I’ve recommended something I want to know that they’re going to be okay that nutritionally everything is complete. There’re enough calories, they have every all the vitamins minerals, they take the vitamin B12, and I can sleep at night. I don’t wanna worry about people if they are on a raw food diet, because stuff can go wrong it’s really hard.

Selim: I was worried about all the bit, about your baseline on the same on the same page. But we were like yeah going crazy about your materials and watching all videos and so on and then you find this podcast where you are doing it with a nutritionist or your baseline. She just put the news into this into this program and it was nutritionally complete. And so I was very relaxed and say okay now it’s nutritionally complete. And I don’t need to worry about anything just eat these stuff. I was getting used to the taste of a lot of things without oil, I mean I already tried reducing my oil before (inaudible) who like (inaudible) Yeah you need to do some other changes if you have this ultimate decision. So it’s not like (inaudible) or role and so on. I mean you could find the golden middle but it takes time and (inaudible) program that works.

Clint: Well you know I’m obviously a little biased but I come from this bias from 11 years since I was diagnosed, and for the first half of that all I did every single moment of my life was like you guys research, apply, test. And my job enabled me overall that time only work half an hour a week maybe an hour a week, because of my entertainment profession. And so all that time I just went through this. And look the nuances, and the detail that’s involved to understand how to get through this tiny tiny window to success is so great that you can’t succeed with anything else in my view than getting everything right. And that’s why I feel that I, you know and we are aware of a path forward that does get as close to everything right as we can. We haven’t talked about your medications and whether you took them, but in the book that I’m working on daily now and hoping to get out within the next few months. I’ve got a whole chapter about medication management, and this is crucial as well because there is no meat, dairy, and oils, that you can eat that can do as much damage as 10 years on Prednisone, right? So we got to get that right as well we can’t be on the wrong meds. So I’m excited we’re talking about now you start to make improvements. Move us forward now t through this process and into some of the victories that you’re experiencing.

Selim: Yeah the (inaudible) are definitely also on this medicine parts. In the beginning I mean the medicine definitely helped to get me out of that or I couldn’t, when diagnosed I couldn’t get out of bed. But with the medicine I could start to move more but obviously the side effects was always on my mind, and this wasn’t the path I wanted to take. And after starting your program I did after one month and a half months, two months my CRP and ESR levels were normal. So there as more and more information and I was at my rheumatologist and told him my blood levels are fine, I have still some pain. I don’t know maybe it was at that time some chronic pain monaulos some food related that it was getting worse I was eating the wrong food. But Danny told me okay you can then just use your medicine as needed, so he got me to take it every day. So that wasn’t a huge relief because everywhere also the patient on the other older patients that have gone through this ankylosing spondylitis for many years they are just telling, you can’t call it distracts for your life. They will just kill you, and even you didn’t do it and the spine because of this inflammation gets like a bone so it has no mobility. And but they’ve taken the medicine because I mean of course you spine is like a bone but what you can live further. Without this medicine they were telling okay.

Selim: You will maybe to lose 20 to 30 years of your life span. Definitely out of question and the side, I mean on the medicine it was telling us that it’s making the gut lining affecting your guts. And so we were trying to heal their gut, the gut lining it was like she is offering me situation on one side. I was trying to heal not the symptoms but the root cause of it and on the other side, all this medication also a lot of pain medication like Ibuprofen that was given to me and was destroying (inaudible) some of the products (inaudible) there were hearts are times also cycle.

Clint: Oh I know.

Selim: So after my blood levels where okay I didn’t take too much medicine and only had some points where I had flare ups or flare ups are just the disease gets really active.

Clint: And the medicine, did you only ever take nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory with only that a range of drug?

Selim: Yeah only nonsteroidal anti inflammatory medicine and yeah tried to (inaudible) I don’t know if I can tell their names or if it’s a problem but.

Clint: Look it doesn’t matter yeah.

Selim: One of them I wouldn’t advise so it was really bad.(inaudible). There are two in Germany that are in use and one I will really not advise. It causes a lot of stomach gut problems and so on. People will know if they are, if there is (inaudible). I must not give the name, a lot people have problems with that. I tried both of them and of course I mean one was a horrible experience and the other one it was helping but only for symptoms. I wasn’t interested in the symptoms, I was interested in the root cause and how can I manage it better. Maybe in the future get a symptom free. So I was also doing a lot of cleansing, like you suggested in the beginning but I probably get 1 day every week. 1 day I was doing cleanse or fasting period.

Clint: How long?

Selim: Yeah. But after several months I was already on the program for 3 months and I was really making progress and getting to know my body and what it’s reacting to. Also the little reactions and just observing what is happening to it and journaling a lot. I mean every day my pain, and or other symptoms, and all the food that I was eating. But at some point the disease was getting really active. For example I had a reaction in my eye, so it’s a uveitis and it’s very common (inaudible). There I tried for example I was very nervous and I started with cleanse for 2 days and then I tried to switch to more I like the juice fasting. So I did it for 4 to 5 days maybe yeah it was very hard. But the doctors told me it will take 4 to 6 weeks to get rid of this inflammation in my eye with cortisone, but it just took 2 weeks.

Clint: Awesome. Okay so just in case some people didn’t catch that you’re talking about uveitis, right?

Selim: Uveitis yes.

Clint: Now, couple of our support members have that condition as you say, it pops up from time to time as a secondary autoimmune condition with you know all of the major ones like rheumatoid and psoriatic and ankylosing and so on. And it’s a scary thing you know inflammation in the eye, it’s a very scary thing. So I’m very pleased and interested to hear, so you said normally they would take 4 to 6 weeks of cortisone treatment to address it. And you said you’re able to get rid of it in two weeks doing a lot of cleansing.

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Selim: Under 2 weeks, after 1 week to 9 days, maybe 7 to 9 days all the redness was gone. And after 2 weeks I was again at the eye doctor to have a check up and he said okay it’s fine now if it happens again and yeah I was not very aware of secondary causes of disease. So I thought it was an eye infection and I didn’t go to the doctor immediately. So it also a very huge risk (inaudible), so if you have it just go to the doctor because you should be very careful about it. You could go actually blind by this inflammation. So just go to the doctor immediately if you see something. I waited for I don’t know 3 days and saw a doctor, and he just gave me some cortisone, eye drops and so on. And after 1 day or 2 days a I started with this cleanse and these more radical fasting. And I think in 9 days, it was 9 to 10 days it was fine.

Clint: Can you tell me what the cleanse was? Because nine days of only vegetable juice cleansing is probably too much for most people. If someone has this condition and they’re thinking about doing this. Did your cleanse involve some food as well?

Selim: Yeah it was just the cleanse described in your program.

Clint: You just went back to the baseline foods?

Selim: No not on the baseline to the cleanse.

Clint: The actual, what I have in my programs the 2 day cleanse?

Selim: 2 day cleanse where you can eat as much salads.

Clint: Wow.

Selim: Because I didn’t try any water fasting or juice fasting. So I didn’t know if I can hold that a long time but I was cleansing, doing just cleanse every week so I was more used to it. So I just made it 3 days to 4 days, and then last 1 day 2 days I tried some juice or water fasting leaving all foods.

Clint: The salads out as well.

Selim: Salads more like smooth maybe a little smooth like. The green leaves, the vegetables I think these are the key to a lot of things.

Clint: Absolutely.

Selim: About fasting it really helps to, the body can concentrate on healing itself and not digestions. That’s the basic thing a lot of (inaudible) about this and yeah everyone should read into it and ask their doctor if they can do it and it’s not because it’s also advised only on some extreme situations when you have a disease or inflammation and so on.

Clint: Wow, okay that’s super.

Selim: Just be careful also doing some experimentations and always talk to professionals about it.

Clint: Definitely. And obviously you’re living with your girlfriend who’s keeping a close eye on you the entire time, so she knows that if you were the sort of I don’t know feel a little weak, she’s right there to help out and that’s crucial you know and that’s what I say just for the two day cleanse as part of our standard process. You want to make sure that someone is aware that you’re doing the cleanse, and that you’re in close contact with them. So that if you feel a little weak or something’s not quite right or you just want someone to get up and go and get you something, you’ve got a partner, you’ve got someone to help you out. So that’s all this been instrumental for you, not just for the cleanse but to go through this whole process. So I’d like you just to talk about their power of having a loving partner to help you through this. And then I wanted to wrap up for us and tell us you know how your body feels today and and so on. So first of all tell us about the power of having support.

Selim: Yeah this was a game changer for me, it was life saving. Because of the psychological support, I mean emotionally, and motivation, and also a lot of just diving into this disease and what this all about. It’s mostly done by my girlfriend, I’m more of the doer type. I mean if you have a new program and new stuff just send it to me and I will try it out. And of course I’m interested in the science of it but I’m a scientist in the family. I’m more on doing it and but for doing it you need also, it’s very difficult you have pain, you have a lot of stuff going on with this disease like financially and so on. As everybody maybe, I mean you have your mind full and then you need the motivation to change your life.

Selim: That’s a huge work and everybody talks about life change, and it’s not easy, not really easy. And you need a lot of motivation, you need a lot of support. Like you say in your program, just get all the support you can have from all the people around you. Then it will work also I mean it little changes, I think these little changes, every day a little change (inaudible) Gökcen was supporting me 24/7. And sometimes I could get out of the house because it was maybe too cold for me or too much pain, some grocery shopping or doing other stuff. I mean I could sit there in front of my computer. I was sitting like 18 hours, maybe a day before that because of my job and other things. She helped me with a lot and, but there I think the most important part was the motivation. And just coming all with new ideas and if something will work with another thing and just this positive mindset. And also trying to (inaudible) all the time now. (inaudible) all the problems you can like going this fight.

Clint: Oh my gosh. No doubt about it. In fact if you don’t have support and you just go through the medical processes. I mean I’d consider it almost a default situation that you’d end up depressed, and you’d end up miserable, angry, frustrated. And like my wife used to work in a bone mineral density scanning clinic, and it was insightful for its own you know reasons. Finding out about how that system works and that’s for a separate discussion. But what she used to find is that when some people would come in and they were getting their bone mineral density scanned, and here in Australia if you have rheumatoid arthritis or any of the inflammatory arthritic autoimmune conditions. You can get a concession or even free access to bone mineral density scanning it’s covered by the government to help you monitor your disease progress. She said she can, after a period of time working for the organization she could start to guess what the person’s diagnosis was when they came in the door. Because quite often some people were coming in with a lot of pain, and they were just a little bit short, they were a list a little bit agitated or a little bit frustrated. And not because they’re bad people but because it was hard getting up the stairs or the door was heavy. The door was heavy at the clinic, and that to push it open, and when you’re in pain with a sore elbow, and sore hands that’s annoying you know. And so she felt really sort of more appreciation and compassion for the condition, and what I was going through when she saw the look. Every little thing in life can agitate you when you’re in pain, and so you know it’s hard. The default position is that it’s hard you’re always battling this internal signal, alarm signals always going off. Beep beep beep inside you all the time it’s pain, it’s pain, it’s pain, that can drive you nuts.

Clint: And so you know that’s when you need the support of someone you could talk to this about, and have that loving connection, and know that it’s okay. And that this will get easier, and life will improve, and if you don’t think that’s going to happen then how are you meant to kind of feel happiness in life you know. So thank you Gökcen for being there for Selim this entire time, and thank you for joining us on this podcast. Then if you’re listening to this they just have a little kiss which is which is nice. Now tell us where are you today? Then what what’s happening for your body now? What are you capable of? And then tell us you know what’s next for you? So first of all tell us how your body feels?

Selim: Physically I feel really good, this food although I think nutritionally it’s like let’s say it was like a (inaudible). Because of my disease, everyone all the doctors and therapist they are telling me you must be active, you must be active. I was doing yoga every day and so on, although I’m just doing advertising (inaudible).

Clint: We love Wimhoff.

Selim: So was also helping a lot, to getting me really controlling the pain level, the pain the culture was like a miracle.

Clint: So you found was you found a lot of benefit from doing whims techniques?

Selim: Plus a lot of benefits. I would call is probably a 70 to 80 % nutrition and the rest just other changes like yoga meditation, breathing techniques, and doing all kinds of sports and so on. Yeah. I started swimming, they told me all this type of swim it’s very good. Actually I swim in a closed swimming pool. I mean it was all close our bathing suits because I wasn’t old I was I was getting in the water. And only after 15 minutes I couldn’t swim anymore I was just shaking, and I got swimming suit. (inaudible). And I was the only guy there like a crazy swim (inaudible) maybe as a professional or something. But after your diet and so on, It’s (inaudible) or maybe a combination of cold water. It’s got exposed it got better and I could swim for an hour or more than 1 hour without problems. I could drive my bike again for long hours, although I couldn’t run and there is a funny maybe scary story where I just couldn’t really run. So I wasn’t able to run but it doesn’t sound that’s terrible but if you have to cross the road and you are in the middle of the road. And it just turns to read here, and there you have a problem if you can’t run. Those are some of the terrible experiences. Now I can run, and swim, and ride my bicycle and actually I am thinking to make here to start a triathlon, and to finish a triathlon at first.

Selim: Before the disease I was also running a little but only for 30, 40 minutes, and like 5 kms, 6 kms, and now I don’t know if it’s your program but I’m betting on it. But I can run for two hours, and also I have my marathon finish last week.

Clint: Half marathon?

Selim: Yeah half marathon. So it was 10 kilometers in 2 hours and 10 minutes. I mean it’s not a record, but I mean I got spondylitis.

Clint: Yeah, man.

Selim: (inaudible) I don’t know. But let me tell you it’s not just of course everything is perfect. Still some chronic pain, and I must be very cautious about my food, so if I eat a pizza for example. (inaudible) I mean your performance falls down, and the pain starts, and this is chronic pain although it gets worse.

Clint: Sure.

Selim: But I learned that they could eat maybe 1 slice and the body builds. Yeah I mean it’s still not good I can feel(inaudible), but it’s okay for the, it’s okay for the (inaudible). You don’t get night sweats and no pain and so on with just a legal cheating. I mean you are allowed to cheat a little But don’t over do it. You also lose your progress I mean it takes i don’t know 1 week, 2 weeks to get to be (inaudible) Yeah just stick to that program till you are almost symptom free. That will be my advice and yeah that’s the long term goal. Although my long term goal is to be symptom free. We are planning to run with Gökcen a full marathon in the future, and have some smaller races planned in the next couple of months. So that’s also giving a lot of (inaudible). So just just plan for nice things that you want to do, and that you want to achieve, maybe to hold on (inaudible). It’s not always easy to restrict yourself, having lot of changes. Just set your goals and the right mindset, I think it’s very important. I personally the most important thing of course is I was able to start to work again.

Clint: Well done.

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Selim: That was a problem, it was a huge problem for me before the disease I would get crazy.

Clint: Yes.

Selim: Couple of years, I mean it was a part of my life and I was on a very nice team and yeah they’re also my boss, I must tell they just support me all the way in this disease. And they’re just telling me just get better and (inaudible) it’s not a problem. You must get better (inaudible) I started my job not full time because I’m still getting better and acquaintance to do a job because it’s not easy to sit down or stand down for eight hours or more. And the other problem is there’s spondylitis (inaudible) people try to maybe to over achieve.

Clint: Very good point.

Selim: And that’s not my saying, I was on rehab for 1 month that there was a moral professionals’ patients there that they had the disease for me for 30 years maybe. And (inaudible) ankylosing spondylitis is trying to over achieve, the problem is people don’t see your pain that’s inside. I mean I can run maybe a little (inaudible) I can but there’s still some chronic pain there are still some morning stiffness. And I must still work several years siting on on my body that the symptoms will normalize. Everyone who is not affected should really take into account some diseases are unfortunately invisible, most of them it’s not just back pain.

Clint: Absolutely, certainly no doubt about that. Well I think your point about over achieving very very powerful one. You know I think that to speak generally of all inflammatory arthritis, if we think of it as a underlying cause of some degree of stress on the body. Whether it be dietary stress or stress placed on the lymphatic system by not moving it, by not exercising, stress through work, emotional stress, or whether it be some kind of other form of stress, or like a infection you know put a stress on the immune system. Some kind of stress in some form that has contributed to the onset of the condition from all of us. And when we apply a dramatic amount of interpersonal and work related stress on top of all that existing stress, that’s where things can really go wrong. And you’re absolutely right, I think that these conditions have a flicked Type A personalities over achievers why? Because we operate in a fight or flight state all the time. It’s got to get done there’s deadlines, I want more, I’ve got to do this. And that is not a digestive state, it’s not a calm state, it’s not a peaceful relaxed balanced state, and therefore there’s imbalance and an additional stress on the body.

Clint: So I am 100% agree on that. So I applaud your approach with not making the same mistake over again, which is to try and now get back to work as quickly as possible and to be the superman. And not to run half marathons every 3 or 4 months, but just say look you know find the new Selim, afind the Selim that has balance, one that has a long term goal to be able to get rid of this sort of lingering bit of inflammation that still is significant after you’ve gotten rid of the monster horrific inflammation. Now you’ve got like a smaller enemy and you can work on that long term, whilst balancing everything else and probably also getting married and having kids. So I like to throw those kind of curveballs at you guys, so who knows next time we talk. Who knows. Who knows. Put that idea. Yeah exactly.

Clint: So look thank you for sharing today both of you and I always enjoy hearing stories especially really heartfelt ones like yourself. And it’s a story of teamwork, and success, and that’s stuff that we want to share and put out into the world. So thank you very much. I really appreciate you guys coming on the show.

Selim: Thank you for the program, and your support of the community, and just sharing your knowledge. I mean it was a game changer for me and as I see in the testimonials for a lot of people for thousands of people. So yeah thank you very much. If I can just say one more thing.

Clint: Go for it.

Selim: We are doing a lot of blogging, I personally is on YouTube although I can maybe you have an invitation for me personally just to talk about the stuff and just give the information like you are doing. I also mentioned doing some blog post (inaudible) and I mean if it’s okay for you I will mention you more.

Clint: Sure. All you need to do, What’s the is it a YouTube channel or is it a blog?

Selim: Yes it’s a blog. I mean we are all over the place now we must I think just focus on some social media, it’s a blog mainly and YouTube channel called (inaudible).com is the blog and YouTube just (inaudible). I just saw that the most important road to take is all of the facts the science. Like you did it, and we are also taking the power from it. Everything is there, what we try to do is simply (inaudible).

Clint: Fantastic.

Selim: Share the information with other people.

Clint: Wonderful it’s a good feeling when you do it and you’ve done that today really nicely so we’ll put a link in case people not sure of the spelling or something we’ll put a link directly to your blog on the transcription of our Web site. So just go to and you’ll be able to search for Selim, and he will come straight up and you’ll be able to not only just get the video or audio of this but also the transcription and click straight through. So thank you so much guys. Continue your great work congratulations and all the best going forward.

Selim: Thank you.


Ankylosing Spondylitis, Plant-based, uveitis, vegan

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